Lets Build a Bubble Bucket *Step by Step*

[CR-PuffnStuff]

I've read this entire thread, more than once, and check in every day. Those mason jars have been quite an inspiration as I've collected the fixins for my first grow space. Thanks to Rump for maintaining, what has to be, the BB thread to which all others must be compared. Great job!
My space is 4' 1" W x 2' 7" D x 5' 7" H @60 cubic feet. I chose the Sun System2 reflector and 600 watts. Cooling and ventilation via Soler & Palau TD-150 @apx 300 cfm. Just bought a dremmel and cut all the vent holes. Found some great reflective insulation at Lowes (Reflectix), but a bit pricey at $48.00. I am now only a ballast and bulb away from my first grow.
I am a realist and will go with a four WW plant, soil grow, as I dial in the room. I planned on sticking with soil until I found this thread, and how can one not want to try after seeing Rumps results! During my first grow I will also be constructing, and tweaking a two bucket system, to be used only after I've learned from the inevitable mistakes. Then it will be a two plant 600 watt scrog, using the Lucas formula. I've always viewed, with great skepticism, when a new growers first question is about how many plants he can cram under a given light, and how he can yield an unrealistic amount of bud. When Rump went from three to two plants, and got more “A” bud, it confirmed what I have always believed, and just one more thing learned from this great thread!
Anyway, wish me luck. As I design and construct my buckets, I will be equipped with this thread, and it does leave the doors open to creative thinking. I am looking at things like, airbrush, or other small compressors, and abundant, reliable air will be a must. Being a fish tank guy, I can assure you that even the high end air pumps lose pressure and are going to die on you. I swear by Rena, and they do cost more, but they too crap out. No fish tank pumps need apply. I equate this to using computer case fans VS: a good in line fan designed to handle static pressure. No Walmart pacemaker for my babies heart. This leaves the rest of the design and here comes the fun! Form and function and what a great hobby we've chosen. I will start with a wish list, and if I had a magic wand. Oh, to be able to see inside, and how about clear bottled water jugs, with their tops removed? Wrapped with Velcro and the same Relectix, which covers the walls. It would be nice to be able to see what's going on inside. Then there's simple being better, and how few holes can I get away with, while designing a perfect system? But the fun will be in recirculation, and it would be nice, if not important, to simulate a flowing river. Imagine testing such a system, an a drop of vegetable grade dye, and watching it move from the reservoir, to the first bucket, and how long before the water is one color, and talk about fun. But I'm rambling, and I do have to smooth out those passive intake holes. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again Rump.
Having taken so much from this thread, I do feel obliged to contribute something, and so this from a fish tank guy. In the fish world, air stones are considered a decorative item, and of little use for adding O2. Not true in this application, and just look at Rumps jars, but perhaps an enhancement. In the the fish tank world, O2 is added by breaking surface tension, with power heads, and water falls, and air stones are viewed as a joke that don't add much. So imagine incorporating such a thing, and as I've said, make a wish list, while keeping it simple, and post it here. Just a thought, and with much work to do.
Thanks Rump!

[Ghostgrower]

Happy 50th page Rump!

[Rumpleforeskin]

CR-PuffnStuff, you make it all worth while. I would like some more information on air pumps. Could you post some pictures and links to some of the best stuff we can get hooked up with? I get asked about pumps all the time. I never have good answers.
Thanks.


Ghostgrower, you should adjust your settings here to give you more posts per page. I show 19 pages. I hate to keep turning pages.
Peace, R.

[Ghostgrower]

Originally Posted by Rumpleforeskin

Ghostgrower, you should adjust your settings here to give you more posts per page. I show 19 pages. I hate to keep turning pages.
Peace, R.

Well then...
Happy 19th page Rump!

Sounds like I need to revisit my forum display settings!

[Ghostgrower]

Originally Posted by CR-PuffnStuff

Having taken so much from this thread, I do feel obliged to contribute something, and so this from a fish tank guy. In the fish world, air stones are considered a decorative item, and of little use for adding O2. Not true in this application, and just look at Rumps jars, but perhaps an enhancement. In the the fish tank world, O2 is added by breaking surface tension, with power heads, and water falls, and air stones are viewed as a joke that don't add much. So imagine incorporating such a thing, and as I've said, make a wish list, while keeping it simple, and post it here. Just a thought, and with much work to do.
Thanks Rump!

CR-PuffnStuff, if you could, look back a couple pages and check out the two different models of air disks I posted on a rather long post(Edit: here is the link). Any opinions or experience (other than what you already posted above) on Penn-Plax standard air disks vs Alita sintered glass air disks or other similar products?

[CR-PuffnStuff]

Rump, concerning “air pumps” I'm still fishing through a sea of information, and rather than posting a link, I will instead suggest Googling what has come up as a common thread. As I've researched, what I believe to be, a fitting air pump, the same hobby kept coming up. If you Google “Koi pond air pump”, you will see what I believe to be the caliber of pump fitting of “our” hobby. You will find some very impressive pumps and air diffusers up to nine inch discs, and the brands will become apparent. More money than the fish tank stuff, but not much more than the price of seeds. Unfortunately, it too is another hobby, and as soon as it's a hobby you pay through the nose.




I have been trying to think out of the box. Having to fill a tire is not a hobby, and and you will not find a boutique pump marketed to the “tire filling fan”. Yet both products deliver air, with the latter delivering more air, and for a fraction of the cost. In fact I am about to do a test. I am buying one of those air tanks, which can be found almost anywhere. You fill them up at a gas station, or in my case at work, and if you get a flat they will fill your tire on the side of the road. Starting at ground zero, I will couple it with a cheap regulator and dial it down to a trickle. With no moving parts I will connect it to an air stone, and throw the stone in a bucket of water, and see how long it will bubble. If it lasts long enough, then wisdom tells me to forget the Koi pond equipment, and run to Walmart for a cheap assed compressor, with a five gallon tank, and used to power cheap air tools. Cheesy, cheap, yet could blow a Koi out of its pond.


Anyway, this is what I' m thinking, and I've been wrong before. I will let you know how it goes.

[CR-PuffnStuff]

Ghost, I looked for your thread, only to find that you gave what my answer would have been. Penn Plax, Tetra, and all those other entry level fish tank products should be avoided IMHO. Alita, on the other hand looks like it fits the bill. Funny, as I was on the Alita site today and you seem to be on the right track. Alita, too, sells rebuild kits and that means that they too crap out. But here's a tip. Did you know that they crap out do to back pressure? You're supposed to have an extra outlet on your manifold, connected to nothing, and just releasing a trickle of air into the room. Just opened a bit. It relieves the stress on the diaphram and extends its life. Theres a lot of pressure when you get under water.

[Ghostgrower]

Good tip, I'll have to try it that and see how that effects the ammount of bubbles I get when my buckets are put together in a few weeks. My goal is to find the quietest air pump with the most power. Sound eleimination is a paramount feature of my cab because it wont matter to me how good my air pump is if it gets me caught. As long as they have reasonable reliability I dont mind having to replace or repair them with a kit from time to time.

To this end I have two Tetra Whisper 100's pumps for now. As I get more cash I'm going to consider other pumps like the Gen Hydro Airpump Rump has been using, the Rena as you suggested, and other quiet koi supply air pump options. Even the Tetra's I have now were louder than I had anticipated but I cant really tell if they are too loud or not as I am only at the stage that my cab is ready to be painted but not yet assembled.

Regarding Alita it was more to do with their air disks than their air pumps. I just got an order in of Penn Plax and Alita air disks and there is no question which one appears to have the better build quality. The Alita disks feel about 30-50% more dense compared to the same size Penn Plax round air disk. I'll post comparison pics if there is any difference once my buckets are in testing.

[CR-PuffnStuff]

Ghostgrower, I'm sure that I too will go with the Alita air disc. It seems to be the perfect choice. Check out the link below for a 9" monster.



http://www.hakkoairpumps.com/subcat62.html

[ocitown]

Originally Posted by CR-PuffnStuff

Ghost, I looked for your thread, only to find that you gave what my answer would have been. Penn Plax, Tetra, and all those other entry level fish tank products should be avoided IMHO. Alita, on the other hand looks like it fits the bill. Funny, as I was on the Alita site today and you seem to be on the right track. Alita, too, sells rebuild kits and that means that they too crap out. But here's a tip. Did you know that they crap out do to back pressure? You're supposed to have an extra outlet on your manifold, connected to nothing, and just releasing a trickle of air into the room. Just opened a bit. It relieves the stress on the diaphram and extends its life. Theres a lot of pressure when you get under water.

Originally Posted by CR-PuffnStuff

Ghostgrower, I'm sure that I too will go with the Alita air disc. It seems to be the perfect choice. Check out the link below for a 9" monster.



http://www.hakkoairpumps.com/subcat62.html

CR,As you are most into and knowledgeable on the DO in water/solution can you tell me what the 5" topfin air stones CFM ratings are?

I now use an Alita AL-60 with 2.5 cfm@3psi using 6 BBs and 6 6" disks,i am currently bleeding some air because as said earlier,excessive backpressure will cause premature failure.

I need .4-.6cfm disks to keep from bleeding any air and add more DO to my solution.

A guy at my local hydro shop says they use one 6" disk for 50 gal of solution and too much DO will give poor results,i did not believe he knows what he is talking about.

I found some .5cfm pond defussers which i think will add much more DO to my solution,do you agree??

Im thinkin these are like .1-.2cfm and my pump is way overkill for them.

After your posts i pulled up my chillers return hose to the top of the res. bucket for a waterfall effect to break the surface tention of the res. and increase DO as well,is this good and will the cover matter cause it doesent let in o2?

Thanx for the reply,all BB guys will benifit from this as will i,BTW i found the AL-60 for $150 if anyones serious about an upgrade.

[ocitown]

Originally Posted by CR-PuffnStuff

Ghostgrower, I'm sure that I too will go with the Alita air disc. It seems to be the perfect choice. Check out the link below for a 9" monster.



http://www.hakkoairpumps.com/subcat62.html

My big pond pump only puts out 85lpm and those 9" disks require 40lpm min. each.

Wont several of those require an even bigger pump to function?

I been looking at some 1/2"npt defussers which add up to the cfm/lpm of my pump for optimum air/DO,is there more to this?

Seems a lil aquarium pump with .5cfm rating would bairly move air in one 9" pond defusser.

[Arnold420]

Just wondering i kno it depends on the strain but if you have any examples strain/yield.
Whats your average yield per plant? How long/tall do you veg for?

THANKS AGAIN RUMPLE...

[Rumpleforeskin]

Sorry I have only weighed my yeild a few times. I get between 3/4 to a full pound per harvest.

I veg 10 days for my White Widow. I wont veg at all for this Master Kush I just started to grow.

I shoot for a target height of 4.5' finish.

[Arnold420]

NICE! Im souped to start my grow

[ocitown]

Rumple: Any ideas on the logical air production vs diffuser size i was posting about last week??

The other guy is prolly busy ATM but I'm curious on why he would recommend a diffuser with a min air demand much smaller than any of the pumps ppl are using,let alone using multiple deffusers.