Titanium Nails/Pads, Oxidation, and Butane vs. Propane Torches, an academic analysis.

Discussion in 'Concentrate Tools' started by USSChallenger, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. This section seems to be flooded with questions/debate over safe practices when using titanium. I'd like to share a recent investigation I undertook into titanium oxidation, and its effect on us dabbers!
    (A quick disclaimer, as I hope for this to be as informative as possible, and have focused on presenting factual information, I have eaten two incredibly strong (and incredibly big) brownies in the past several hours and cannot guarantee the clarity of the information presented within.)

    Recently the Highly Educated blog was linked here, specifically this article about oxidation The Oxide Layer, What is it? | Highly Educated Ti Blog. What really sparked my interest was the claim that oxidation is a completely natural process that will happen to any titanium product! The post also seems to imply that the oxidation layer is not in itself harmful, as the natural oxidation forms a protective layer against progressively heavier future oxidation. And here I thought it was something both completely avoidable and dangerous just to be around!

    However, that's not to underscore the dangers of inhaling titanium dioxide(the chemical compound created via titanium oxidation). A quick look on Wikipedia shows that "Titanium dioxide dust, when inhaled, has been classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as an IARC Group 2B carcinogen possibly carcinogenic to humans", and goes on to cite studies in which rats developed cancer through exposure to the substance, and links to human dangers. Titanium dioxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now that we have some background on the dangers of inhaling titanium dioxide particles, lets take a look at the claims made by Highly Educated. As found here Titanium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Titanium "surfaces oxidize immediately when they are exposed to air" - furthermore, on the subject of titanium dioxide, it goes on to state that "it is slow to react with water and air, because it forms a passive and protective oxide coating that protects it from further reaction."

    In that same article we see that "Titanium readily reacts with oxygen at 1,200 C (2,190 F) in air". To the best of my knowledge, any butane torch worth mentioning burns with a flame temperature of 2500F. Furthermore, I have been unable to find any evidence that propane directly reacts with titanium to form titanium dioxide. It is now my understanding, after a little bit of investigation, that propane torches are perceived as more dangerous because they burn at a higher temperature (closer to 3,500+F), therefore reaching accelerated oxidation temperatures more quickly. This means it is still the heat that produces the oxidation, not the propane itself.

    These findings seem to support the notion that all torches are capable of producing the potentially more dangerous "increased levels of oxidation" on a titanium surface, if allowed to exert enough heat. Whether these increased levels of oxide correspond to increased danger, or even whether this natural oxidation process contributes to inhalation of titanium oxide particles is debatable, but its my opinion that the best practice until more information on the matter becomes available is to avoid any excess oxidation of your titanium.

    The best way to do this, is to simply avoid heating the surface excessively. The common consensus, and one I personally subscribe to, is that as soon as one notices even the slightest change in the nails state, it is more than sufficiently heated to dab off of. Any more heat than necessary will only contribute to a greater likelihood of creating excess oxidation.

    I hope this hasn't bored or confused anyone too much, just trying to share some information so people can apply their own critical thinking to the decision making process instead of mindlessly perpetuating whatever the opinion du jour is(and don't even get me started on the massive game of telephone that is internet message boards) :laughing:
     
  2. So in theory as long as your nail doesnt get hotter than ~2,000 degrees oxidation shouldnt be a problem?? Obviously theres a layer of oxidized titanium on the outside of your nail no matter what, so is this layer not harmful then? Or are you supposed to clean off the dioxide regularly?
    I would hope the initial oxide layer isnt harmful, but then my question is at what point is the dioxide build-up or w/e enough to become harmful? I swear dabbing involves to much crap having to do with dangerous chemicals and shit.
     
  3. That's why I go quartz
     

  4. That is my understanding, since below this temperature there is no increase in oxidation, the nail is simply forming its "protective coating".

    As of now, I'm assuming that this layer is not harmful, mainly because it should be firmly attached to the titanium surface (just as long as you don't scrape the dabber against the nail, something I've noticed in dabvids). Unfortunately, due to cannabis' illegal nature and the relative unpopularity of concentrate smoking and dabbing in particular, it is all just speculation based on my limited understanding of these proceses.

    As far as cleaning goes, id assume that its largely unnecessary, unless one had a severely oxidized nail to begin with (like, completely white lol). It stands to reason that if the oxide layer is naturally forming, then removing it will only begin the process again (while in the mean time exposing the nail to increased oxidation), while subjecting the user to increased risk of inhaling titanium oxide dust (as once again, I believe its firmly attached to the nail until scraped off).


    That is a very good question, and the answer ranges from potentially never, to the moment one startes dabbing. Again, its all speculation, but personally, I am going to continue using my titanium products, while taking the utmost care to avoid any excess oxidation, at least until more information is available on the subject.
     
  5. Good research man. After reading that though, and my thoughts before reading, I feel there just isn't enough information yet concerning the dangers of smoking from titanium. Titanium, for the most part is a pretty inert material, that's why they use it within our bodies for medical reasons sometimes. But when heat reacts with pretty much anything it causes all sorts of crazy results. As harmful as titanium dioxide is to humans, I feel the best course of action until further research is to stick to quartz and glass nails, quartz specifically if you can.
     
  6. i debate something similar with my friends, some of us prefer to "lightly' heat the nail, while others get the whole top cherry red.....i personally feel cherry red is just a bit too far and metallic gases/vapors could by a product / harmful....they claim it doesnt get hot enough...i dont know, i'm no dab-ologist...<---new word for us all lol..

    anyone have somethign to throw down?
     
  7. bump, I think more people need to read this.
     
  8. This might not have to do with oxidation, but figured it didnt deserve a thread. In any of your reading did you find anything about seasoning titanium? Im about to retire my nail, and break out my new v3. On my old nail i used the water seasoning technique(which is just heating the nail, then submerging it in water a few times) Well in the highly educated article it said it doesnt season if anything just quickens oxidation.
    So then whats a good technique to season. Lets clearly define seasoning, as i know it seasoning is removing the shiny coat/layer on the top of your ti. Is this even necessary? Ive hear that dabbing reclaim( w/o inhaling it lol) is a good way to season. Ive got a ton of reclaim saved up, but its from the inside of my rigs and its infested with moisture. Im worried all the water in the claim will prematurely oxidize it. I want this nail to last lol, so damn expensive.
     
  9. [quote name='"AfganiKush"']This might not have to do with oxidation, but figured it didnt deserve a thread. In any of your reading did you find anything about seasoning titanium? Im about to retire my nail, and break out my new v3. On my old nail i used the water seasoning technique(which is just heating the nail, then submerging it in water a few times) Well in the highly educated article it said it doesnt season if anything just quickens oxidation.
    So then whats a good technique to season. Lets clearly define seasoning, as i know it seasoning is removing the shiny coat/layer on the top of your ti. Is this even necessary? Ive hear that dabbing reclaim( w/o inhaling it lol) is a good way to season. Ive got a ton of reclaim saved up, but its from the inside of my rigs and its infested with moisture. Im worried all the water in the claim will prematurely oxidize it. I want this nail to last lol, so damn expensive.[/quote]

    V3's are changeable, just need to buy a new cup (top) when it goes bad. Around 25 bucks. As far as seasoning goes, it varies. I'm not sure what works or not.
     

  10. Simple solution. Buy a quartz nail.
     
  11. Simple solution? Lol. I already have a brand new 80$ Ti nail. Why would i buy a quartz nail...and some people prefer titanium to quartz. IMO the advantages outweigh the downsides. I love not worrying about my nail breaking, i notice absolutely no difference in taste, and titanium just kicks quartzs ass in so many ways. I cannot take fat dabs off of quartz or glass. They just do not retain heat well enough for me. I would have to get a glass/quartz nail damn near theyre breaking point to stay hot enough for a giant dab. I think ti is the best, you like quartz, lets agree to disagree.
     
  12. ^^. I agree with you. I owned glass, quartz, and titanium. Way more positives than negatives.
     
  13. Ok I'm starting to get the notion that quartz nail users are as bad as newbie vaperizer users screaming "get a vape lol" at every possible opportunity. Imo Ti tastes better, retains heat longer and is easier to gauge just how hot its getting vs quartz. Oh and btw one still has to season quartz before it is seasoned ;)

    Anywhooo... I personally have never seasoned a nail, and its never been an issue despite owning like 4 different nails by now. (of various sizes and shapes) But if you want to season it the most recommended practice seems to be to just melt a fat dab on it without inhaling, though I see no reason why you couldn't just inhale as well, as I said its never been an issue for me. And so far I've dabbed all my reclaim, including some water logged stuff that hissed a little while melting, and my nails seem just fine, though I suppose the best practice would be to pop your claim in a food dehydrator or maybe a bag of rice until the excess moisture has dissipated (I plan to try this once I have more reclaim to smoke, first batch of homegrown is curing right now :D)
     
  14. I wasnt really too sure what seasoning was for. I first heard about it on the CCC and from what i remember they were talking about an unseasoned nail being really slick and your dab sliding around on the nail head when it first touched. Ive also heard a story from them where shane dabbed of an unseasoned quartz and they say the bong milked with a black vapor:eek:. Idk about that but what reason would they have to lie about that lol. Suck on that you quartz junkies:laughing:. Lol all joking aside im not really sure there is a need to season but ill dab some claim on it just for good measure. And gratz on harvesting your first grow. Ive got two M.O.B. girls that im about to switch to flowering. Mob= master X bubba X og..heavenly genetics:smoking:
     
  15. Very educational. Titanium for the win. Im willing to take the risks for the FAT DABS
     
  16. its funny that no one has mentioned a health stone. with a torch on minimum heat from an appropriate distance, all negatives of all nails are no longer an issue. No taste, no titanium dioxide, no limit on the size of the dab.

    also: i dab off a quartz nail any time I do use a nail. There's never been a time that it produced black vapor; including my first dab. I call bullshit/not really quartz.
     
  17. [quote name='"bstrap"']its funny that no one has mentioned a health stone. with a torch on minimum heat from an appropriate distance, all negatives of all nails are no longer an issue. No taste, no titanium dioxide, no limit on the size of the dab.

    also: i dab off a quartz nail any time I do use a nail. There's never been a time that it produced black vapor; including my first dab. I call bullshit/not really quartz.[/quote]

    Well that would probably be mainly due to the fact that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with hsg. :laughing:

    On a side not my main concern over the "health" part of the hsg is the butane being shot through the stone while you inhale. I don't even light my bowls with a butane lighter, can't imagine using a torch...
     
  18. I've been using boro nails and they work fine, no weird taste.
     

  19. if youre willing to smoke bho made with vector butane, then whats wrong with using vector butane to light it?
     

  20. My BHO does not contain any butane, that lighter might. :)
     

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