A Comprehensive Guide to Dealing with Police (No Snitching Involved)

[Laughing Grass]

Originally Posted by sinsemillapleas

Yeah right... so instead of taking the chance that he might search you in violation of your 4th amendment rights... you're recommending to guarantee a search by consenting. Once again... this guy is spreading extremely poor advice. I don't doubt most seasoned tokers know better than to consent. For all you apprentice tokers out there: Give yourselves a fighting chance in a court of law. Do not consent to any searches. EVER!

Check out this extremely helpful video from flexyourrights.org

And here is the Flex Your Rights website. The title bar reads "Just Say 'No' to Police Searches.

The host is the former director of the American Civil Liberties Union. His recommendation: Never consent to any searches. So who do you trust? The bill of rights and the ACLU or the poster above? The choice is easy...

Look buddy, im not hear to fight about this stupid shit...all I know is when I follow an ex-narcotic officer's advice it has served me well in the past and the cops never found anything in my car. I always consent to search and have never been busted, but then again its only an ex-narcotic officer thats giving me this advice....

[ChrisSmokes]

Originally Posted by sinsemillapleas

Which state are you referring to? As far as I know implied consent only applies to breathalyzers and field sobriety test but I can't be sure without knowing which state.

Okay I think you're right! Thanks for clearing that up.

[sinsemillapleas]

Originally Posted by Laughing Grass

Look buddy, im not hear to fight about this stupid shit...all I know is when I follow an ex-narcotic officer's advice it has served me well in the past and the cops never found anything in my car. I always consent to search and have never been busted, but then again its only an ex-narcotic officer thats giving me this advice....

If you don't want to fight then stop posting unsubstantiated advice in my thread. An ex-narcotics officer is your unbiased source It was his job to get people to let him search.

Originally Posted by sinsemillapleas

Feel free to post additional advice so long as you can support it with the necessary case law or something else verifiable.

I included this for a reason. Advice from an ex-narcotics officer is not legal advice and is not verifiable. Please stop trolling for the sake of the apprentice tokers.

And finally...

The snitching discussion stops here. This thread clearly states that it is not about snitching. I took a serious chunk of time out of my day (when I could've been smoking) to pass on some knowledge about your constitutional rights in police encounters. Turning this into a discussion about the merits of snitching can only detract from my intent. Be a real man/woman, swallow your pride and desire to be right and keep this discussion on topic. If applepie28 wants to discuss snitching in his thread then by all means go argue there. Do not bring it here.

[Xolomilco]

That video was awesome, it really taught me a lot.

[sinsemillapleas]

Originally Posted by ChrisSmokes

Okay I think you're right! Thanks for clearing that up.

Glad I could be of service.

Originally Posted by 420Skunk420

Also what if they say they smell some buddah?
can you get a witness near by to smell your car or something for proof?

I should address this in detail since I forgot to in my original post.

SMOKING CANNABIS IN YOUR CAR
This is one my favorite pastimes and also one of the things I am most paranoid about. We all know smoking produces a fairly potent scent that tends to linger, especially within the closed confines of an automobile. There are several things you can do to keep your in-car smoking session from becoming a police encounter. I will also offer tips as to what you can do if you encounter police despite your best efforts at avoiding them. This will be the most hypocritical of all advice I ever give on GC so prepare yourself... and please refrain from reminding me of how big a hypocrite I am. In my opinion, being a hypocrite makes me just like everybody else.

Do not smoke before or while driving.

As the driver of a motor vehicle, your foremost responsibility is to maintain control of the vehicle for your own sake as well as the safety of any passengers and other drivers on the road. Everything else takes a backseat to safety... PUN! Though cannabis is not as detrimental an intoxicant as alcohol, it is proven to slow reaction time. In a sticky situation, a split second delay in reaction could be fatal. Though many studies have shown that cannabis-intoxicated drivers are more risk-aversive and obey posted limits more often that those who aren't intoxicated, "high driving" can still have serious negative consequences. That being said, I wrote this and I do it all the time anyway. If you're going to ignore this advice make sure you fully understand the potential consequences, as I do.

If you've been smoking in your car your windows should be all the way down and your a/c fans should be all the way up (a/c cooling off). This allows for full circulation of air through your cabin and the a/c vents. If you have dank, smelly bud keep it in a closed container (not a bag) and store it in a closed off area (trunk is best, locked glovebox is second). Pine tree car fresheners are always a good idea, especially the royal pine variety. They mask the smell of weed like nobody's business. Do not create reasonable suspicion or violate traffic law to merit a Terry stop. This means you should never be smoking in a car with any physical deficiencies such as broken/blown out lights, old tags, rusted plates, missing mirrors, etc. If you do it anyways you're asking for trouble and may the cannabis gods be with you. Obey all laws to the letter.

If you are stopped anyway, consult the traffic stop section of this guide. Do not forget to ask why you were stopped. Repeat after me, "Sir why did you pull me over?" Without reasonable suspicion of a crime or violation of a traffic law, detaining you for any period of time is unconstitutional and grounds to have any subsequent arrest or search thrown out in court.

Do not spray air freshener. It is already too late for that and it could serve as a part of reasonable suspicion, though by itself it is innocuous. Be sure nothing illegal is in plain view and leave only your driver window down and only enough to speak to the LEO. Do not give him enough room to stick his nose in your car. If the LEO insists that he smells burnt marijuana, deny his claim and refuse the search if he requests. He may decide that the smell is reasonable suspicion and decide to detain you and in limited circumstances may tell you that he is calling in the dogs. Do not be afraid and still do not consent to a search. Offering consent waives your 4th amendment protection against unlawful search and you are then at the mercy of the LEO. If you refuse to consent you always have the opportunity to argue in court that the search was unconstitutional and if you forward your complaint to your local ACLU branch there is a good chance they will weigh in on the matter in some form. The political clout of the ACLU has a tendency to sway judges to behave themselves on the bench.

Unfortunately 420Skunk420, there is no precedent for calling in extraneous witnesses to the scene to verify or negate claims that the odor of marijuana is present. That being said, its definitely worth a try. If it ever happens to you call your most reputable friend to the scene as soon as you get a chance. As long as they don't obstruct justice they can be at the scene and get video evidence of everything as well. The presence of witnesses has a chilling effect on police misconduct, especially when video cameras are involved.

The odor of marijuana does constitute probable cause to search your vehicle without a warrant. Marijuana found in a vehicle after a warrantless search cannot be used to bolster an LEOs claim of probable cause. In other words, the fact that you did have marijuana does not in any way justify the search in the eyes of the law. Many defense attorneys have successfully quashed evidence from such warrantless searches when the LEO was not specifically trained to determine how long the odor lingers in a vehicle after being present or how to distinguish between those who possessed/smoked marijuana and those who were merely present at the time. Most LEOs do not receive such training, therefore you should always encourage defense attorneys to make this argument. Here is a bit of scientific research that could be useful for such a defense strategy.

Drugged driving laws vary widely from state to state. For example, in Michigan (Where I live) I have been drugged driving every day for almost three years straight. If I have any detectable level of THC metabolites in my body, I am drugged driving according to the law. It doesn't matter that THC metabolites are not psychoactive. Make an effort to know your local ordinances and state laws regarding drugged driving.

Finally...

NEVER hotbox a moving vehicle. This is possibly the dumbest choice you could ever make while smoking in a car. The odor of marijuana will permeate your clothes, your upholstery, and your skin. You cannot hotbox a car and not come out smelling like a garden in full bloom. If you want to hotbox do it while safely parked on your own property.

Note: I know the fact that weed odor constitutes probable cause is very scary. The only time I was ever pulled over, I was currently smoking a joint of the most potent-smelling weed I have ever encountered, Cat Piss. The windows down method saved my life. The trooper never even hinted at smelling marijuana at all. Do not give the odor a chance to build up and stick to surfaces in your car and you will be forever grateful that you didn't... Trust me.

[sikander]

GREAT guide! It jives with what I know about the law (which is slightly more than your average bear but I'm no lawyer). +rep

Originally Posted by sinsemillapleas

Pursuant to detainment, LEOs have the right to frisk your outer garments from head to toe for weapons, but not for drugs or paraphernalia.

It should be noted that the plain view doctrine still applies to Terry stops, so if in the course of a frisk anything illegal comes up that wasn't in the scope of the original lawful search they can still get you for it.

[sinsemillapleas]

Originally Posted by sikander

GREAT guide! It jives with what I know about the law (which is slightly more than your average bear but I'm no lawyer). +rep
It should be noted that the plain view doctrine still applies to Terry stops, so if in the course of a frisk anything illegal comes up that wasn't in the scope of the original lawful search they can still get you for it.

Very, very good point. This is why I think it is important to keep a backpack on you or keep your mobile bowl in an eyeglass type case. Frisking does not entitle LEOs to search the contents of your closed bag or closed case. All an LEO can do in this case is pat you down. Also never consent to turning out your pockets. This is not a requirement of a Terry frisk. It's a commonly used ploy to incriminate you. If you oblige without challenge you have implicitly given consent as it was a voluntary action on your part. If you do this you have no legal recourse.

Edit: Almost forgot... Thatch-roofed cottages.... THATCH-ROOFED COTTAGES!!!

[EvoMan454]

I have a question.

I've been in a few situations where officers have searched me on foot without any probable cause and they didnt have my permission to search. They just demanded me to put my hands on the car and searched me.

If they actually found something on me which they haven't, how would I prove I didn't consent to any searches in court and that they didnt have probable cause?

[sinsemillapleas]

Originally Posted by EvoMan454

I have a question.

I've been in a few situations where officers have searched me on foot without any probable cause and they didnt have my permission to search. They just demanded me to put my hands on the car and searched me.

If they actually found something on me which they haven't, how would I prove I didn't consent to any searches in court and that they didnt have probable cause?

They don't need probable cause to frisk you. They need reasonable suspicion. It's a lot less demanding of a standard than probable cause but it does require objective, articulable facts to back up the suspicion. If they searched you for no reason and had found evidence you would've needed to call a lawyer and tell them what happened. Some would argue that you gave implicit consent by fully cooperating and not objecting. In the future, make it clear that you do not consent vocally and be sure to ask why they are detaining you and what evidence they have to substantiate reasonable suspicion. The fact that you know your rights will make them exponentially more wary about trampling them.

The text of the 4th Amenment protects you against unreasonable searches. That leaves the burden to prove reason on the police. You have the benefit of the doubt in regards to whether or not you gave consent. You would just need to make sure you called an attorney as soon as you could.

Edit: Wait... I thought I read that they patted you down. How exactly did they search you? Outer clothing pat down or something else?

[sinsemillapleas]

Originally Posted by Spliff_Word

This should def be a sticky for real! Out of all things I would want to know as an apprentice toker, this would be it.

Seconded. Mods: I don't mean to toot my own horn but this is information that each and every citizen should be privy to, especially tokers. Sticky?

[Lawn Boy]

If a cop stops you and just asks you where you are going and what your name is, don't get defensive or scared or think he is on to you. He would be much more agressive if he knew you were up to no good. Just tell him your name and where you are going. Know the area and think of somewhere closeby as an excuse if you are on your way somewhere that isn't legit like a smoking spot or your dealers house. They are only going to search you if you look suspicious. Have a good cover story, but always tell the truth if you are going somewhere legit.

[EvoMan454]

Originally Posted by sinsemillapleas

Edit: Wait... I thought I read that they patted you down. How exactly did they search you? Outer clothing pat down or something else?

They made me get up against the car and they patted me. They also checked my pockets too.

[ozWinston]

No snitching involved haha good shit

[sinsemillapleas]

Originally Posted by EvoMan454

They made me get up against the car and they patted me. They also checked my pockets too.

Yup.. as I suspected they violated your rights. It makes me sick how nonchalant they are about constitutional rights violations. They understand that people just don't understand how powerful the protections against tyranny this country offers are. Next time you won't be susceptible.

Originally Posted by Lawn Boy

If a cop stops you and just asks you where you are going and what your name is, don't get defensive or scared or think he is on to you. He would be much more agressive if he knew you were up to no good. Just tell him your name and where you are going. Know the area and think of somewhere closeby as an excuse if you are on your way somewhere that isn't legit like a smoking spot or your dealers house. They are only going to search you if you look suspicious. Have a good cover story, but always tell the truth if you are going somewhere legit.

Yeah... avoid being paranoid at all costs. That being said, there is no need to provide answers to their intrusive line of questioning. All you owe them is a name. If they ask other questions just deflect them with questions of your own. If you have done nothing wrong the law views cop as having no more power over you than a private citizen. Would you tell a random stranger where you are going or allow them to search you or your property? I think not...

Q: "Where are you headed?"
A: "Why did you stop me sir? Have I done something wrong?"
A: "Am I being detained or am I free to leave?"

I we keep allowing police officers into our private lives what is left to encourage them to operate under the protections of the bill of rights?

[Lawn Boy]

Yeah... avoid being paranoid at all costs. That being said, there is no need to provide answers to their intrusive line of questioning. All you owe them is a name. If they ask other questions just deflect them with questions of your own. If you have done nothing wrong the law views cop as having no more power over you than a private citizen. Would you tell a random stranger where you are going or allow them to search you or your property? I think not...

Q: "Where are you headed?"
A: "Why did you stop me sir? Have I done something wrong?"
A: "Am I being detained or am I free to leave?"

I we keep allowing police officers into our private lives what is left to encourage them to operate under the protections of the bill of rights?[/QUOTE]
The problem is, that usually seems confrontational to a cop. If you are simply walking somewhere and a cop asks you what is up, it is best to just tell him you are on your way to some location, even if it isn't really your destination. To a cop, a simple question such as where a dude is headed is a reasonable thing to request, and he he is going to think you have something to hide when you don't tell him. When you do counter with a question, even one so politely worded as yours, some cops will even think you are playing smart with them and will hassle you further. But if a cop walks up and you tell him where you are headed confidently, then you just look like an average citizen going about their business.

Think like a cop for a second. If some guy is walking along on the sidewalk and you stop him and ask him where he is headed and he says "why am I being stopped, did I do something wrong?" is going to seem odd because it makes it seem like he is on the defensive right away has some reason to not answer what you just asked him, such as not wanting the cop to know where he is going. If he said "oh, I'm on my way home it's just a few blocks away" or some shit, that seems more like the average response, and even if you didn't believe him you can always just ask where he lives and radio in the name, which is what most cops do to see if you the guy isn't lying.