TRUE aeroponics !!!

[balla420]

Think you know what aeroponics is? Think you grow using aeroponics? Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're probably not. I've seen plenty of threads here at the city claiming to be "aeroponics" grows. But they aren't... they are "FAKE" aeroponics. In fact, I've never seen a real aero grow posted here, or anywhere else so i'm making this thread to let everyone know what TRUE aeroponics is.


What is Aeroponics?
Aeroponics is a method of growing plants, that is superior to all other methods. Most people know that plants grow faster (fact), and possibly bigger (debatable) when using HYDROponics compared to soil or soiless mix grows. Most people also know that when using AEROponics compared to any other method, you get even faster and possibly bigger growth than even HYDROponics. But this is only true if your using TRUE aeroponics. If your using a "fake" aeroponics system, you will get essentially the same growth as any other method of HYDROponics. The reason for this is because true aeroponics creates an atomized water/nutrient solution that is more easily absorbed into the roots and there is also a more abundant amount of oxygen. Another major advantage of TRUE aeroponics is you will use far less nutrients.



FAKE Aeroponics:
Every "aeropoincs" grow i've seen here at the city has been "fake" aeroponics. And 99.9% of all "aeroponics" systems I've seen for sale ANYWHERE are not actually true aeroponics systems.

The most common type of fake aeroponics system is a reservoir with a submersible pump that pumps the water up to some sort of pipe or hose (usually pvc pipe) and out micro sprayers (pictured below). These systems are no more than modified DWC systems. Eventually the roots will grow down into the reservoir (quite fast actually) and then the sprayers really don't matter. They could all shut off, and the plants would still grow as if they were in a regular DWC system. If your "aeroponics" system looks anything like the pictures below.....YOU ARE NOT USING AEROPONICS.




TRUE Aeroponics:
The primary key to TRUE aeroponics is the size of the water "droplets". Unlike FAKE aeroponics that use micro sprayers where you can literally see a stream or droplets of water, TRUE aeroponics creates EXTREMELY small water "droplets" that are 5-50 microns which are too small to actually see. This is also known as ATOMIZING. The atomized water (in this case water/nutrient solution) looks like FOG as pictured below.



Another distinct feature of TRUE aeroponics systems is there is NO medium. that means you don't even use rockwool starter cubes or netcups with hydroton. You usually have a small hole (about 1" in diameter) then a neoprene (synthetic rubber) disk wraps around the stem and goes into the hole. This supplies enough pressure to hold the plant in place, but still allows enough flexibility to allow the stem to thicken as the plant grows. Also, in a true aeroponics system, the root chamber and reservoir are completely segregated. see picture below




How to atomize water/nutrient solution?

there are 2 common ways to acheive this.
1.)using a high pressure water pump with a mist head (nozzle)
2.)using an air compressor and a specialized nozzle assembly.

the usual method for rating a water pump is by its flow rate which is in gallons per minute (GPM). Keep in mind that just because you have a high GPM rating, does not mean its a high pressure pump. High pressure pumps usually cost upwards of $100


Ultrasonic Foggers

Most of you have probably heard of ultrasonic foggers. Ultrasonic foggers are considered to be a low-pressure form of TRUE aeroponics but it may not be sufficient for growing a plant from start to finish. The picture shown above of the atomized water/nutrient solution resembles the fog created by ultrasonic foggers, but they are different. The fog created by ultrasonic foggers consists of water "droplets" slighty LESS than 5 microns, while the atomized water/nutrient solution created by one the 2 methods listed above creates water "droplets" at a MINIMUM of 5 microns and up to 50 microns.

Ultrasonic foggers work great for propagating clones, but it is debatable whether or not they will work to grow a plant all the way to harvest. Ultrasonic fog is also known as dry fog. This is because the water "droplets" are so small, that the fog literally feels dry to the touch.

NASA, yes...the people who went to the moon and built the space shuttle, has done research on aeroponics and suggests that in order to grow a plant all the way to harvest you need water droplets between the size of 5-50 microns. The bigger the plant gets, or more plants you have, the bigger the water "droplets" need to be. This suggests that ultrasonic foggers will NOT be sufficient to grow a plant all the way to harvest since ultrasonic foggers only produce water "droplets" slightly LESS than 5 microns. I am not sure if they have speciffically tried growing a plant all the way to harvest using only ultrasonic foggers or not, But I think it would be worth trying, and I plan on trying it sometime. One company that makes ultrasonic foggers (Nutramist) told me in an email that their foggers are intended to be used IN ADDITION to conventional HYDROponic methods. Of course, neither NASA nor Nutramist had Mary Jane in mind, so again... if you ask me... its still worth a try.

So I hope this helps everyone who doesn't already know what TRUE aeropoinics is. It would be great to see a TRUE aeroponic grow here at the city. I am planning on putting together an aeroponics system sooner or later.

[soapman]

Interesting, I guess all those aero units I built aren't exactly aeroponics. Bummer. Good read balla, +rep for you....negative rep. hehehe, jk.

[jollyrancher1]

I have been using foggers and a recirculating reservoir system for a couple of years now.

Here is a link to my rig.

http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-...ed-aero-3.html

I have no problem going from veg to harvest with just the foggers.

The caveat is that you should keep a spare as they do fail.

In the past two years I have had one fail and it took out two power supplies (in the middle of a grow of course!).

[soapman]

He didn't say you would have any trouble. I would think fake or real aeroponics are both good ways to grow. Just yours and most of everybodies that sell systems or build are not true aeroponic setups. His article states that that true aeroponics uses water droplets between 5-50 microns...later goes to say that foggers use less than 5 microns.

[Limewillis]

Deep water culture all the way to the bank.

haha, good read and it makes me feel better that my setup is cheap, reliable, but most importantly- Highly effective.

[jollyrancher1]

What seems to work the best (for me) is getting the roots to go as big as I can get them and then when they hit the 63 deg nutrient, BANG!

I actually got much better root growth when I got rid of the drip system.

I like simple and easy too!

I almost have it to the point where I only have to look at the stuff once a week when I do the purge.

More often when in bloom.

I installed my webcam in the cabinet so I don't have to open the door and dump the CO2 when I inspect.

[icantwaitogrow]

Do you have a DIY for a TRUE Aeroponics set up or maybe i'll take up the challenge?

[balla420]

Originally Posted by jollyrancher1

I have been using foggers and a recirculating reservoir system for a couple of years now.

Here is a link to my rig.

http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-...ed-aero-3.html

I have no problem going from veg to harvest with just the foggers.

The caveat is that you should keep a spare as they do fail.

In the past two years I have had one fail and it took out two power supplies (in the middle of a grow of course!).

Hey, i checked out your thread. I still cant tell.... do your roots hang down in the reservoir? or do you have a seperate root chamber and reservoir? What i want to try is to have a root chamber completely seperate from the reservoir. then have the fog blown into the root chamber. The nutramist fogger has a nice preassembled unit that does this. Its a housing that contains the foggers themselves, a float switch to maintain the proper water level, and a fan to blow the fog into the root chamber.

Originally Posted by icantwaitogrow

Do you have a DIY for a TRUE Aeroponics set up or maybe i'll take up the challenge?

I don't have an actual DIY step by step.. but basically all you need is a root chamber, a reservoir, a high pressure water pump, and mist nozzles, and tubing that can take the pressure.

there is one company i've came across that sells a premade system (only one i've ever seen) that is a true aero system, but it's quite expensive and could probably be made for less [the cutaway picture in my main post that shows the "no medium" is one system they sell]. In addition to the parts i just listed... they use some extra parts...which i don't think would be needed for a DIY system. I'll put the link to their website and they also sell aero components. Also another site that sells misting nozzles (metal) and pumps. Keep in mind though....plastic nozzles are better because the mineral salts won't build up as fast as with metal nozzles.

Aeroponics international
Mist cooling.com

[Joe Luxon]

I've just started my first Hydro grow for some fun (one of those "bubble bucket" Aquaponic setups), When i was originally deciding what hydro method to choose i was quite put off by Aeroponics becuase of the difficulty in setting up the equipement (and my Indoor grows are more of cheap experiments than anything else really, i prefer to grow outdoors)

The Main critea that seemed impossible to achieve with "mcgyver" solutions was actually breaking down the Nutrients and water droplets and creating the "mist".
As i understand, the reason why Aeroponics are the best method for growing, is becuase all the nutrients are broken into such small pieces, that theyre more easily absorbed by the root system.

If this is the case, could a "bubble bucket" or DWC system work better, if the solution from the RES tank is first pumped (high pressure) through a sometype of "micro nozzle" into a second rRES, and then allowed to flow over the roots as normal? or does everything recombine in the liquid?

I'm still quite early on in my BB project, so if theres ways i can improve it i'd like to know.

[jollyrancher1]

There seems to be a lot of discussion and opinions about areo/fog/mist/bubble ponics.

In my system, I have the root system hang from an area that is fogged 24/7.

Past a certain point, the roots hit solution which is set for 63 deg.

You can't get that kind of temperature laden nutrient in just an areo system IMO, without a lot of trouble.

Also, I have a manifold that gives me an air bubbler under each root mass (bubble ponics).

All I can say is that it works, and it works very well.

I have seen the proposals for the pure fog setups (blow fog into the system) and I would like to sample product from one of those.

[balla420]

Originally Posted by jollyrancher1

There seems to be a lot of discussion and opinions about areo/fog/mist/bubble ponics.

In my system, I have the root system hang from an area that is fogged 24/7.

Past a certain point, the roots hit solution which is set for 63 deg.

You can't get that kind of temperature laden nutrient in just an areo system IMO, without a lot of trouble.

It would actually be quite easy to keep the temp low enough in a true aero system, because since the water particles are so fine and there is more air the water evaporates faster, causing a cooling effect.

If you have a shower head that has the "mist" option. try turning it on, and the water will feel much cooler without actually turning the cool knob on anymore.

Plus if you can afford to put together a quality aero sytem, then you can probably afford an air conditioner. Just duct a portion of the A/c air into the root chamber and you'll get it colder than you could possibly want.

I've heard from a few grow guides that for MJ the ideal rootzone temp is 65-68 deg. F

Originally Posted by jollyrancher1

Also, I have a manifold that gives me an air bubbler under each root mass (bubble ponics).

All I can say is that it works, and it works very well.

I have seen the proposals for the pure fog setups (blow fog into the system) and I would like to sample product from one of those.

when you say a manifold with air bubbler under each root mass... you mean like an air stone? If thats what you mean by bubble ponics... that is the same thing as a DWC system.

a fure fog system is exactly what i was wondering about. I would like to try it out sometime and see first hand whether or not it is sufficient for growth from seed to harvest.

[jollyrancher1]

Some guys I know take it to the 50's , but I think it is to low of a temp.

Also, temperature is one thing, but you need to "bubble" or somehow saturate the mist/fog with oxygen to take advantage of the lower temp. Ergo the bubblers.

Good luck on a pure fog/areo system.

Other then proving that it can be done, I don't think it will give the results you seek without being a major science project.

If it makes it grow, it must be good though.

[icantwaitogrow]

Originally Posted by jollyrancher1

Some guys I know take it to the 50's , but I think it is to low of a temp.

Also, temperature is one thing, but you need to "bubble" or somehow saturate the mist/fog with oxygen to take advantage of the lower temp. Ergo the bubblers.

Good luck on a pure fog/areo system.

Other then proving that it can be done, I don't think it will give the results you seek without being a major science project.

If it makes it grow, it must be good though.

I wanna see some result. I really wanna make a true aeroponics system in the future. I just need to know if it would "out-perform" other systems. not just grow plants in space.

[jollyrancher1]

The proof of the pudding so to speak.