Co2 and making it work the right way.

[ocitown]

My original plan for a 100% sealed grow room has since changed(most of us make changes right?) to a vented one,its always been vented but now comes the added Co2.

I bought a CAP PPM-3 fuzzy a year ago with a CAP Co2 burner thinking i could control the heat during the summer months but now i know without a very large AC running up my already HUGE power bill this is just not possible.

So here i am rethinking the rooms needs and getting all the right stuff as i run 1/2" black pipe(gas line)to the room.

Here's the plan...now.

I have a 10x10x8 room with only one 1K cooled and scrubbed by a 757 HO Vortex can fan and a can 50 CF.

My CAP GEN-1E(NG burner with electronic ignition), has two burners which put out 3 cubic feet of Co2 per HR. IIRC and it has the ability for two more if needed.

Traded in the PPM-3 for a PPM-2a(also fuzzy and $200 more)which also needed an Air-1(used with the PPM-2a) to know where the temp/RH is to switch off the Co2 to vent when either is too high(set points i control).

They explain this "Fuzzy logic is the bomb for Co2 but is best turned off for burners as they can cycle too often wearing on the burners valve/igniter.

So the 2a is over $700 and the Air-1 is $160 with the burner around $500.

I don't care about the $$ IF its the right combination,since they recommend turning off the "fuzzy" function is the 2a just a Co2 controller with digital set points and the ability to add their temp/RH controller?

I know their are cheaper items which may do the same things from other companies but when i paid for the wrong equipment over a year ago that sealed a system which would come from them,they also exchanged the PPM-3 at full cost.

Their is other Air-2/Air-3 and Air-4 boxes which are available,can anyone see one of those being better in any way?

They may also make another digital set point type Co2 meter/controller which can work with a temp/RH meter and play nice as well.

Any info on this would be great,i have till the weekend to make any other changes because it will all be installed this weekend for sure,which will put my plants in the beginning of their 4th week of flower.

Im thinking about getting another non HO Vortex 8" and adding it to just the 1K(speed controlled to keep quiet but still move a good amt. of air) as an in and out cooling fan only so i can keep the temps cooler,so Co2 would be on longer and plants could be kept closer as well.

The HO 8" would be the scrubbing exhast fan on high to exchange the hot/humid air when the Air-1 turnes off the Co2 so it could be off thr shortest possible time.

I now have two 4" Vortex can fans and im using only one ATM which is inside the lil veg. closet drawing the only cooled air to the room via the next room which has all AC/Heater vents closed and the window opened to get the coolest air possible,it goes through the veg closet then out the top via a 4" passive intake to help cool the room while the HUGE HO 747 CFM draws out the hot air (the 4" only moves 168 cfm on a goog day)so theirsa big need to make changes like addjing the 1Ks fan(in and out only) with a speed controller,and finding some way to get a 6" Vortex to bring clean cool air into the room so it still keeps a the negitive presure needed to contain scents from the 2/3rd and 4th week

The ppm set point would be at between 1500-2000ppm and the RH could be set at 40 for the 1st half of thr grow and 20RH the seconed half as our RH is usually in the teens anywhere neer summer time.

Temp could be set to 85,90 or even 95 if the plants could tollerate it as this would keeo thr CO2 punping for the longest time possible.

Im still runnin the gas lines and expect to get um all in on wed and start up the bad boy and tweak it till buds the size of my head come off.

Any help from the guys who are in the know would be the help i need and would be well willing to repay it many times over if ya know what i mean.

[jcj77d]

i dont know much about that equipment, but i thought some of this info would help.
Proper temperature is one highly variable factor. Most books state optimum grow temperature to be 70-80 degrees, but many list extenuating circumstances that allow temperatures to go higher. Assuming genetics is not a factor, marijuana plants seem to be able to absorb more light at higher temps, perhaps up to 90 degrees. High light and CO2 levels could make this go as high as 95 degrees for increased marijuana growth speed.* An optimum of 95 degrees is new data that assumes very-high light, CO2 enrichment of 1500 ppm and good regular venting to keep humidity down. It is not clear if these temperature will reduce potency in flowers. It may be a good idea to reduce temperatures once flowering has started, to preserve potency, even if it does reduce growth speed. But higher temperatures will make plants grow vegetatively much faster, by exciting the plants metabolism, assuming the required levels of CO2 and light are available, and humidity is not allowed to get too high.
With normal levels of CO2, in a well vented space, 90 degrees would seem to be the absolute max, while 85 may be closer to optimum, even with a great deal of light available. Do not let the room temperature get over 35 C (95 F) as this hurts growth. Optimal temperature is 27-30 C (80-86 F) if you have strong light with no CO2 enrichment. Less than 21 C (70 F) is too cold for good growth.
Low temperatures at night are OK down to about 60 degrees outdoors, then start to effect the growth in a big way. Mid 50’s will cause mild shock and 40’s will kill your plants with repeated exposure. Keep your plants warm, especially the roots. Elevate pots if you think the ground is sucking the heat out of the roots. This is an issue if you have a slab or other type of cold floor.
As temperature goes up, so does the ability of the air to hold water, thus reducing humidity, so a higher average temperature should reduce risk of fungus.
Contrary to many reports, high humidity is not good for plants except during germination and rooting. Lower humidity levels help the plant transpire CO2 and reduce risk of molds during flowering.
Studies indicate the potency of buds goes down as the temperature goes up, so it is important to see that the plants do not get too hot during flowering cycles.

Elevating carbon dioxide levels can increase marijuana growth speed a great deal, perhaps even double it. It seems that the plant evolved in primordial times when natural CO2 levels were many times what they are today. The plant uses CO2 for photosynthesis to create sugars it uses to build plant tissues. Elevating the CO2 level will increase the plants ability to manufacture these sugars and plant growth rate is enhanced considerably.
CO2 can be a pain to manufacture safely, cheaply, and/or conveniently, and is expensive to set up if you use a CO2 tank system. CO2 is most usable for flowering, as this is when the plant is most dense and has the hardest time circulating air around its leaves. If your strictly growing vegetatively indoors, (transferring your plants outdoors to flower), then CO2 will not be a major concern unless you have a sealed greenhouse, closet or bedroom, and wish to increase yield and decrease flowering time.
For a medium sized indoor operation, one approach is to used CO2 canisters from wielding supply houses. This is expensive initially, but fairly inexpensive in the long run. These systems are good only if your area is not too big or too small.
The basic CO2 tank system looks like this:

20 lb tank $100
Regulator $159
Timer or controller $10-125
Fill up $15-20
--------------------------------
Worst case = $395 for CO2 tank setup synced to a exhaust fan with a thermostat.
CO2 is cheaply produced by burning Natural Gas. However, heat and Carbon Monoxide must be vented to the outside air. CO2 can be obtained by buying or leasing cylinders from local welding supply houses. If asked, you can say you have an old mig welder at home and need to patch up the lawnmower (trailer, car, etc.)
For a small closet, one tank could last 2 months, but it depends on how much is released, how often the room is vented, hours of light cycle, room leaks, enrichment levels and dispersion methods. This method may be overkill for your small closet.
It is generally viewed as good to have a small constant flow of CO2 over the plants at all times the lights are on, dispersed directly over the plants during the time exhaust fans are off.
Opportunities exist to conserve CO2, but this can cost money. When the light is off you don’t need CO2, so during flowering, you will use half as much if you have the CO2 solenoid setup to your light timer. When the fan is on for venting, CO2 is shut off as well. This may be up to half the time the light is on, so this will affect the plants exposure times and amount of gas actually dispensed.
Environmentally, using bottled gas is better, since manufacturing it adds to marijuana greenhouse effect, and bottled CO2 is captured as part of the manufacturing process of many materials, and then recycled. Fermenting, CO2 generators, and baking soda and vinegar methods all generate new CO2 and add to greenhouse effect.
CO2 generation from fermentation and generators is possible. A simple CO2 generator would be a propane heater. This will work well, as long as the gases can be vented to the grow area, and a fan is used to keep the hot CO2 (that will rise) circulating and available below at the plants level. Fire and exhaust venting of the heat are issues as well. A room that must be vented 50% of the time to rid the environment of heat from a lamp and heater will not receive as much CO2 as a room that can be kept unvented for hours at a time. However, CO2 generators are the only way to go for large operations.
Fermentation or vinegar over baking soda will work if you don’t have many vent cycles, but if you have enough heat to make constant or regular venting necessary, these methods become impractical. Just pour the vinegar on baking soda and close the door, (you lose your CO2 as soon as the vent comes on). This method leaves a great deal to be desired, since it is not easy to regulate automatically, and requires daily attention. It is possible however, to create CO2 by fermentation, let the wine turn to vinegar, and pour this on baking soda. It’s the most cost-effective setup for most closet growers, for whom $400 in CO2 equipment is a bit much to swallow.
In fermentation, yeast is constantly killing itself; it takes a lot of space. You need a big bin to constantly keep adding water to, so that the alcohol levels will not rise high enough to kill the yeast. Sugar is used quickly this way, and a 10 pound sack will run $3.50 or so and last about 2-3 weeks. This is also difficult to gauge what is happening as far as amounts actually released. A tube out the top going into a jar of water will bubble and demonstrate the amount of CO2 being produced.
Try sodium bicarbonate mixed with vinegar, 1 tsp: ~30cc- this will gush up all frothy as it releases CO2. do it just before you close the door on your plants. A MUCH cheaper way to provide CO2 is 2 Oz sugar in 2 liters of water in a bottle [sterilized 1st with bleach and water, then rinsed], plus a few cc urine[!] or if you insist, yeast nutrient from a home brewing supplier. Add a brewing yeast, shake up and keep at 25 deg celsius[~70 F] . Over next 2 weeks or so it will brew up about ½ Oz CO2 for every Oz sugar used. Keep a few going at once, starting a new one every 3 days or so. With added CO2 growth is phenomenal!!! I personally measured 38cm growth in 8 days under a 250watt HPS bulb[tubular clear, Horizontal mount].
A good container is a 1 gallon plastic milk jug, with a pin-hole in the cap. Also, the air-lock from a piece of clear tube running into a jar filled with water will keep microbes out and demonstrate the fermentation is working.
A variation is to spray seltzer water on the plants twice a day. This is not recommended by some authorities, and receives great raves by people who seem to feel it has enhanced their crop. It stands to reason this would work for only a small unvented closet, but may be right for some situations. It could get expensive with a lot of plants to spray. Use seltzer, not club soda, since it contains less sodium that could clog the plants stomata. Wash your plants with straight water after 2 or 3 seltzer sprays. It’s a lot of work, and you can’t automate it, but maybe that’s good! Remember, being with the plants is a beautiful experience, and brings you closer to your spiritual self and the earth. Seltzer is available at most grocery stores (I get it at Lucky’s @ .79 for a 2 litter bottle). Club soda will work if seltzer water is not available; but it has twice as much sodium in it. A very diluted solution of Miracle Grow can be sprayed on the plant at the same time. One factor of using selzter water is it raises humidity levels. Make sure your venting humidity during the dark cycle, or you could risk fungus and increased internode length.
CAUTION: Don’t spray too close to a hot bulb! Spray downward only, or turn off the lamp first.
Even though CO2 enrichment can mean 30-100% yield increases, the hassle, expense, space, danger, and time involved can make constant or near constant venting a desirable alternative to enrichment. As long as the plant has the opportunity to take in new CO2 at all times, from air that is over 200 ppm CO2, the plants will have the required nutrients for photosynthesis. Most closets will need new CO2 coming in every two or three hours, minimum. Most citys’ will have high concentrations of CO2 in the air, and some growers find CO2 injection unnecessary in these circumstances.
Some growers have reported to High Times that high CO2 levels in the grow room near harvest time lower potency. It may be a good idea to turn off CO2 2 weeks before harvesting.

You have to vent a lot with a HID lamp, less so for fluorescents. Also, humidity build up requires that you vent at least a few times per day. For a room with a hot lamp that builds up heat quickly, the best vent would be one that cleared the room in 5 minutes, then would stop for 25 minutes before venting again, or similarly, vent 3 minutes, shut off 12 minutes, etc. The trick is to find a timer that will do this sort of thing. Not easy to find and not cheap. Once you need to regulate CO2 on and off inversely with the fan, your looking at a $100 climate controller.
Alternatives are a thermostat that turns on a fan when a certain temperature is reached, and turns it off when the temp recedes 4 degrees. But it is a bitch to coordinate CO2 release with this one, since you don’t know when the fan goes on. $39 for this thermostat, but to sync it to CO2 with a voltage sensing relay is $100 for the ready-made switch, so then the environment controller at $100 is cheaper. All you really want is a fan that clears the air in a few minutes, a temperature switch that turns on and off the fan, and an inverse switch that turns off and on the CO2. If you can vent the room really quick and the heat does not build up too quickly, the CO2 could be run in a slow, continuous fashion, and would build up in-between the occasional quick exhaust cycles.
Two timers synced can be used, but the only ones cheaply available are the 30 min interval, 48 trips per 24 hours. So I could have a fan run 30 mins on, then 30 mins off. I could also sync it to the light so that I don’t vent when the lamp is off. I can sync this to an identical timer that will turn on CO2 during the time that the fan is not on, and vise versa. It would be difficult to sync them closer that 5-10 mins, but at least there would be a possible inexpensive solution. $20 for two of these timers.
Fans are expensive to buy for venting, but I just go down to the local electronic parts liquidators and they have muffin fans for $5-10, so that’s a real savings over the $50-70 these fans cost new at the indoor garden stores. A good vent fan will keep the humidity and temperature down, and distribute CO2 to your plants from new incoming air.
Internal air movement is very necessary as well. An oscillating fan should be used to circulate air within the growroom, to help circulate CO2. It will also keep the humidity down, allowing the air to absorb more moisture, and reduce risk of fungus. A wall mount oscillating fan will not take valuable floor space. The best grow rooms have the most internal air circulation.

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is used by plants in photosynthesis, or the conversion of water, atmospheric carbon dioxide and light in the plant’s chloroplasts into food energy (simple carbohydrates), with oxygen as a byproduct. Resins and saps in the plants stems and branches then transmit this food around the plant to promote growth, reproduction and prevention of disease.


Photosynthesis stops at night, thus plants do not use CO2 during the night, or lights-out stage. Although enrichment of the atmosphere during the night cycle will not harm the plants, efficient CO2 systems are regulated so that when the lights go out, CO2 emissions stop.

Ambient air at sea level contains approximately 350-500 ppm of carbon dioxide. Higher altitudes and rural locations typically have a lower presence of CO2, while lowlands and urban areas have a higher presence. CO2 can be measured, in parts per million (ppm) of air, using an inexpensive device available in hydroponics supply catalogs and garden shops (approx US$20).

Carbon dioxide enrichment involves increasing the concentrations of CO2 to 4-5 times the normal atmospheric levels, to between 1200-1500 ppm in an enclosed space. Enrichment has been shown to promote faster growth, higher yields, and stronger, healthier plants. Levels higher than 2000 ppm have been shown to retard plant growth. Low levels of CO2 (below 200) have been show to halt vigorous growth, even when all other conditions are ideal. Because of this, any enclosed space requires replenishment of the internal CO2 as it is used by plants, either from ventilation or from CO2 supplementation.

Temperature, humidity, and CO2 concentrations form a triangular relationship in a greenhouse or indoor grow. If all 3 factors are not in equilibrium, there is a risk to the plant in terms of stunted growth, toxicity, or death/disease.

Standard growing conditions typically include concentrations of CO2 at 300-500 ppm, temperatures between 65-80°F, and relatively low humidity (20-40% rH). Studies have shown optimal growth and yields at 90-95°F, 1,500 ppm CO2, 45-50% relative humidity, 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light, and vigorous air movement both above and below the canopy. CO2 enrichment under 80°F, under 7500 lumens/sf, or above 50% humidity is not recommended because plants will not be conducting photosynthesis quickly enough to benefit from the enrichment.

Internal air movement in the grow room is critical to CO2 enrichment. Carbon dioxide is a slightly heavier molecule than other molecules floating around in the gaseous mixture we call air. Thus, CO2 enrichment without air movement will result in the gas settling out of the atmosphere before it has a chance to reach the plants. High temps and humidity without air movement can also encourage mold and bacteria growth.

To calculate the amount of Carbon Dioxide needed to enrich a room to 1500 ppm, first calculate the volume of the growing space. For instance, an 8×8 foot room with an 8 foot ceiling would contain 512 cubic feet of space. Determine the CO2 needed to enrich to 1500 ppm by multiplying the volume of space by .0015.

512 x .0015 = 0.768

Thus, 0.768 cubic feet (or rounded up to 0.8 cu ft ) of carbon dioxide will be needed to enrich this room at 1500 ppm. 1 lb of CO2 is equal to about 8.5 cubic feet at normal temperature and atmospheric pressure.

The rate at which carbon dioxide needs to be replaced is purely a function of how much ventilation the space receives and how many plants are consuming CO2 in the grow space. Only testing monitoring will ensure CO2 levels remain somewhat constant. Grow rooms that rely heavily on external ventilation to control temperatures or smell should not consider CO2 enrichment, because any gas introduced to the space will be blown out as quickly as it’s created. A sealed room that relies on no external ventilation is ideal for CO2 enrichment. Since the ideal temperature for CO2 enrichment is much higher than normal, growers who employ this technique will need much less ventilation (if any).

For those who still want or need external ventilation, CO2 enrichment will only succeed if exhaust and enrichment are timed and set on opposing cycles. For instance, in a flowering room an exhaust fan timed to operate during the night would not conflict with CO2 enrichment during the day, when plants can use the additional gas. In vegetative growth rooms, the fans and enrichment would need alternating cycles to make enrichment worthwhile. For those growers using unregulated sysems, CO2 output should be adjusted for both speed and volume to make up for the exhaust.

There is some anecdotal evidence that charging nutrient solutions with seltzer cartridges will encourage plant growth in some hydroponics systems. The CO2 is released into the atmosphere as a byproduct of nutrient movement in the hydro system. This method has not been scientifically proven, nor would not be effective in aeroponic systems where nutrients are largely contained in separate tubs from the leaves and branches of the plant. Spray ring and ebb/flow systems may have the best potential for success with this method.

METHODS OF CO2 PRODUCTION
Tanked CO2
Tanked CO2 is by far the most reliable and controllable method of CO2 enrichment. Bottled CO2, usually available from welding supply and bottled gas vendors, is metered out via regulators and solenoids. It is possible to very finely regulate the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere using technologically advanced digital regulators. In many areas, licenses or permits are required to obtain bottled compressed gasses due to safety regulations.

Advantages
-Very fine control of CO2 using regulators
-Easy to automate, hassle free once set up

Disadvantages
-High initial cost of equipment
-Logistics of delivering and returning heavy bottles to a secure grow area
-The tank becomes a deadly projectile in a catastrophic failure, or can cause a significant and dangerous explosion in a fire.
-Rapid, unexpected release of CO2 can cause over-enrichment and asphyxiation of room occupants.
-Permit/license requirements may make bottled gas difficult to obtain

Combustion
Fuels such as ethyl alcohol, natural gas, or propane produce CO2 as a byproduct of combustion. Burning of one pound of clean burning heating fuel will produce 3 pounds of carbon dioxide gas, 1.5 pounds of water vapor, and approximately 22,000 BTU of heat.

Devices which help attract and kill mosquitoes in outdoor yards use propane fuel tanks to create carbon dioxide. The insects are attracted to the CO2, which in nature is an indication of a food source. These devices burn propane in a tightly regulated, low temperature combustion chamber. Although these would probably be the lowest temperature application of this method, any indoor storage of propane, natural gas or other bottled, explosive gasses is highly discouraged.

Ethyl alcohol (available as denatured alcohol in hardware stores) is a readily available material and can be safely burned indoors in small stoves or lamps. Ethyl alcohol is also the primary reactive component of Sterno and similar gel fuels.

In our sample room (8×8x8), we would need to create about 1 lb (8.5 cu ft) of CO2 over a 24 hour period. To find the volume of ethyl alcohol, we first need to find out how much ethyl alcohol weighs. Water has a specific gravity of 1.0, but ethyl alcohol’s specific gravity is .79. Since one gallon of water weighs 8.33 lbs:

8.33 x 0.79 = 6.58 lbs

Thus, 1 gallon of ethyl alcohol weighs 6.58 lbs. Since 1 lb of fuel creates 3 lbs of CO2, only .333 lb of fuel would be needed to create 1 lb of C02.

By ratio and proportion:

6.58 lbs * X gals = .333 lb * 1 gal

X = .333/6.58 = .051 gal

Since 1 gal = 128 fluid ounces:

.051 gal * 128 ounces = 6.48 ounces

Thus, we would need to burn 6.48 ounces of ethyl alcohol per day (a little more than 3/4 cup) to enrich a completely sealed room. The amount of CO2 needed (and thus fuel) would increase with any supplemental air changes. There is some evidence that active combustion can help control odors in enclosed spaces.

Coleman stoves, bunsen burners, portable propane space heaters, and other similar devices are all potential sources of carbon dioxide as long as they are used safely.

Advantages
-Inexpensive to set up, depending on method chosen.
-Heat can be beneficial if temps are low, such as in a cold basement grow room.
-Output can be regulated by size of flame
-Can provide slight odor control.

Disadvantages
-Open flames in enclosed spaces create a fire hazard
-Additional heat produced by combustion adds to heat already produced by HID lighting.
-Can be difficult to burn enough fuel to achieve optimal enrichment without adverse side effects, such as carbon monoxide.
-Indoor storage of bottled fuels is potentially dangerous.

[redneckgrower61]

I just read both of those posts so I'm little fried from that but anyways.

Here is a link with pics of my entire set-up including CO2. http://forum.grasscity.com/general-i...ml#post3732926

I don't know anything abou the burners so I'll leave that to someone else.

Everything sounds like it would work just fine I'm just not sure as to why you would trade in the PPM3 for the PPM2a? The PPM3 kicks ass.

Why not keep it and instead of the AIR2 get the AIR3 or Air3DN? Got mime new for $180

My set up consists of a Can 66 hooked up to a Vortex HO. That is hooked up to the AIR3 and cuts on/off when temps or hum get too high. The Air 3 cuts off the CO2 as not to waste it. The PPM3 plugs into this also and cuts the Regulator on/off when PPM drop below 1500 or the exhaust fan cuts on.

I have a dehumidifer in the room that runs 24/7 as well.

My 2x 1000w are on a closed loop system so that never draws any air out of the room, but keeps the lights cool.

Not sure of your outside temps but I use a Can Fan 6" HO to cool both lights and it does the job just fine. My temps now run 89.1 with the added CO2.

So I'd save the pennies and just get another Vortex 6" for the hood, no since in 700+cfm Imo. Pick up an Air-3, get the burner set up and put your seat belt on cuz CO2 rocks! Best 1000 bucks spent!

Hope this helps!!

[redneckgrower61]

The differences in the different Air's are what they cut on and off.

The Air 2 only controls Temp and Hum

Air 3 Does the same but cuts off Co2 when the Exhaust kicks on. (THE ONE I BOUGHT)

Air 3 DN. Does the same but has a plug where you can hook a heater up for winter time
that way the night time temps never get too low. (THE ONE I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT) lol

Air 4 Has a seperate Plug for Temp, and hum. It is designed to kick on ehaust when Temps get too high and the Hum plug is intended to cut on a duhumidifer, and has CO2 plugs as well.


Hopefully this clears this up, I was going through all this a month ago!! Its a real pain, but once set up it rocks!!

[ocitown]

Originally Posted by redneckgrower61

The differences in the different Air's are what they cut on and off.

The Air 2 only controls Temp and Hum

Air 3 Does the same but cuts off Co2 when the Exhaust kicks on. (THE ONE I BOUGHT)

Air 3 DN. Does the same but has a plug where you can hook a heater up for winter time
that way the night time temps never get too low. (THE ONE I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT) lol

Air 4 Has a seperate Plug for Temp, and hum. It is designed to kick on ehaust when Temps get too high and the Hum plug is intended to cut on a duhumidifer, and has CO2 plugs as well.


Hopefully this clears this up, I was going through all this a month ago!! Its a real pain, but once set up it rocks!!

The Air 1 (which i have) is just like the air 2 except it will cut the Co2 off when either the temps or RH is out of your preset points.

[ocitown]

Now my only issues are with the RH getting too high with the burner (40s)for flowering and the heat is borderline at 85-90F. because i need to change my CF-light-fan-out the attic to something with a separate fan cooling the light when the light is on and venting/scrubbing the room when temps are too high.

ATM it cycles too often as the light is not cooled and its sealed with a lens and ducting which should only be used with a fan on at all times.

[mj_bazooka]

Just read this entire thread as I am using much the same c02 equipment you all are and have a huge desire to get this process to work in the home grow room as it's the chreapest most effient way to do it.
I have: CAP AIR4, CAP PPM3 and a CAP 2cf c02 generator. I am doing some research and trying to find a drawing of how the actual c02 reacts once it comes out of the generator, as I am thinking of putting a stove pipe hood above the c02 generator using a temp controlled backdraft damper so it opens once it senses a temp of say 100-120 degress (when the c02 generator comes on), this will allow me MUCH better control over the heat issues and will give me some room on the size portable air cond. unit I need. From everything I have found so far it just says it's more heavy then the air, but what i really want to see is what actually happens when it's leaving the generator. i have read and seen pics of systems in Europe that actually have a separate room for the generators and then blows the created c02 back into the grow rooms via duct work...concept is the same, however I don't have a spare room for c02, so i just need to get the heat out quick! and keep the c02....
oh and one other idea, what about using a combination of c02 gen and tanks? as well as ridding the room of the gen heat fast?

I'm high so forgive if the reply is wordy....

[Toledo FJ]

Sorry guys, but the C.A.P PPM 3 is a piece of shit. The way they have the wires attach with no support is straight ghetto. I'm running one at the moment, but that will change when I get the Sentinel Digital. Much better design.

I don't really understand why you'd pay for the Fuzzy logic box when that is specifically for running tanks. You traded in the PPM 3 for a more expensive feature, that you are not going to use? Hmmm...

[mj_bazooka]

Originally Posted by Toledo FJ

Sorry guys, but the C.A.P PPM 3 is a piece of shit. The way they have the wires attach with no support is straight ghetto. I'm running one at the moment, but that will change when I get the Sentinel Digital. Much better design.

I don't really understand why you'd pay for the Fuzzy logic box when that is specifically for running tanks. You traded in the PPM 3 for a more expensive feature, that you are not going to use? Hmmm...

Yeah, I noticed the CAP PPM 3 wires being attached poorly with no support coming out of the unit, I solved this by wire mgmt. attaching the wires above the unit to the wall. But other then that what makes it a piece of shit? Any functional or operational issues?