Ph Keeps Rising! Please Help!!!

[rapt44]

I am posting here in addition to the general section because I am using hydro, but really want everyone's help, thanks.
Hello, I am running a recirculating top feed drip system in six of the 5 gallon buckets with pure hydroton and a 10 gallon reservoir with ice to keep it cool. Feeding goes on all day with 2 minutes every 10 to help it drain. I am using the three part advanced nutrients with silica, that fulsomething acid, nectarsweet, calmag, wet betty, and supervit. I have a CO2 system. Change the water out regularly. I am using RO water.

Here's the problem. A week ago my ph began to rise, I figured it was because the plants were getting root bound, so I transplanted them into their own 5 gallon buckets with a little bit of nutriboost. They seemed to do ok, but the ph kept fluctuating. Must be root rot right? So I used some of the Zone from dutchmaster (like peroxide). Still no change. I had a clog, fixed that (don't know why but I thought that could have been affecting ph, and then maybe the metal strainers I put in to prevent the clogs are affecting it?) Anyways, simplest answer is easiest. Calibrated my ph meter, it was off. Changed out all the water. Remixed everything. Seemed to have it fixed. The ph was staying at 5.6 or 5.7 where I put it! So I discontinued the Zone applications and as I am about to go into flowering, thought Id help bulk up the roots from the transplant with some tarantuala and iguana (the fungi stuff u use with it) as well as some hygrozyme.

Yet now my ph is back to rising to 6.1/6.2 in the course of a few hours!!! I even bought a second ph meter, calibrated them both and they both confirm that the ph is now rising.

My suspicions:
1) The hygrozyme is dissolving some of the dead root mass which is raising the ph.
2) The cultures are raising the ph as they get started.
3) I am running my 6 at around 700 ppm. Adding around 10 tsp of micro, 10 of bloom, 10 of grow, 30 total (as recommended by advanced's website for light feeding a 10 gallon reservoir), to my 10 gallon reservoir, then all the additives and excellerant junk to bring it up where it needs to be. Am I not adding enough of the basic 3 part solution, the big guys are going through that in a day or two, and that is rising the ph? But by as much as 5.5 to 6.2 in a half a day? And the ppm's don't seem to be changing much.

Sorry for the long e-mail but I am stuck!!!!!! ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED AND WILL RECEIVE GOOD KARMA!

[GigZ-16]

I don't know the answer to your inquiry, but I have to give you props on such a nice set-up. I hope it all turns out okay.

[rapt44]

Some people think my 10-12 gal res for 6 plants is too small. Do you think my suspicion #3 could be correct and I need to up the levels of grow, micro, and bloom?

[suspect]

Originally Posted by rapt44

Some people think my 10-12 gal res for 6 plants is too small. Do you think my suspicion #3 could be correct and I need to up the levels of grow, micro, and bloom?

Im not claiming to be 100% correct but if I had to guess, Id say that you are using way to many products, & that is prolly what your problem is. I only use Dutch Master products, and their shit says absolutely no outside nutes or additives when using the zone/max/silica combo. plants need a little time to resume normal growth once in shock, so constantly switching additives is just gonna worsten things, be patient & quit overannalyzing a minor situation. use 50% strength nute, ph correct when needed, only use water when toppin up the rez, & wait 4-5 days for results, dont expect to see results the next day!!!
(believe me when i tell you that Ive tried almost every major hydroponic nute there is)

[rapt44]

Thanks for the help. We are talking ph, not deficiency here though, so I should see changes pretty quickly. I am using 50% strength nute, correcting ph when needed (which is now too often), and as for only topping off with water, though that is what I do, why is that? Can I not add nutes midway through the week in the order of micro, bloom, grow as long as they don't interact in high concentration?

I think I may agree with you on using too many products. I think the hygrozome and/or the bacteria/fungi are interacting with something. I read somewhere that enzymes shouldn't be used with organics, and yes I am using silica, but do you have any idea specifically which ones are having a bad interaction? Floralicous, Silica, Tea Compost, Nectar Sweet? Supervit?

Biggest question? Is this a minor situation?

UPDATE: I woke up this morning before my pump turned on to check the ph and it was 7!!!! This means that it increased all by itself in the rezzy overnight. Also, and this is a head scratcher, the ppm's increased by almost 100 to around 820 ppm. Raising ppm and ph?! Is this hygrozyme breaking stuff down into the water, or is the bacteria/fungi growing, maybe eating some of the organics like molasses that are in there?

I've put the ph down to 5.5, and will let it drift up throughout the day. You think with it increasing as it is that if I let it drift from 5.5 to 6.5 and then put it back down once, maybe twice a day, I will be good?
Thanks again for all your help! Keep it Coming!

[suspect]

Originally Posted by rapt44

Thanks for the help. We are talking ph, not deficiency here though, so I should see changes pretty quickly. I am using 50% strength nute, correcting ph when needed (which is now too often), and as for only topping off with water, though that is what I do, why is that? Can I not add nutes midway through the week in the order of micro, bloom, grow as long as they don't interact in high concentration?

I think I may agree with you on using too many products. I think the hygrozome and/or the bacteria/fungi are interacting with something. I read somewhere that enzymes shouldn't be used with organics, and yes I am using silica, but do you have any idea specifically which ones are having a bad interaction? Floralicous, Silica, Tea Compost, Nectar Sweet? Supervit?

Biggest question? Is this a minor situation?



Thanks again for all your help! Keep it Coming!

yes this generally is an easy prob to fixbut sometimes can be tricky, so a process of elimination should be employed. make sure everything is 100% contaminate free/build-up free, also check to make sure your food hasnt gone bad, if its in a warm place it probably has.
As for topping up you rez with water only, its because the plant sucks up more water then nute so adding more nute would make it toxic.

UPDATE: I woke up this morning before my pump turned on to check the ph and it was 7!!!! This means that it increased all by itself in the rezzy overnight. Also, and this is a head scratcher, the ppm's increased by almost 100 to around 820 ppm. Raising ppm and ph?! Is this hygrozyme breaking stuff down into the water, or is the bacteria/fungi growing, maybe eating some of the organics like molasses that are in there?

Id say this narrows it down to your rez(is it clean/releasing some foreign substance into your nute solution?), or your nutes & additives(have they expired?)

"I've put the ph down to 5.5, and will let it drift up throughout the day. You think with it increasing as it is that if I let it drift from 5.5 to 6.5 and then put it back down once, maybe twice a day, I will be good?"

unacceptable, your ph should be stable enough where the largest fluctuation is a point or two, something is definately interfering with your ph

[ocitown]

Originally Posted by suspect

yes this generally is an easy prob to fixbut sometimes can be tricky, so a process of elimination should be employed. make sure everything is 100% contaminate free/build-up free, also check to make sure your food hasnt gone bad, if its in a warm place it probably has.
As for topping up you rez with water only, its because the plant sucks up more water then nute so adding more nute would make it toxic.

UPDATE: I woke up this morning before my pump turned on to check the ph and it was 7!!!! This means that it increased all by itself in the rezzy overnight. Also, and this is a head scratcher, the ppm's increased by almost 100 to around 820 ppm. Raising ppm and ph?! Is this hygrozyme breaking stuff down into the water, or is the bacteria/fungi growing, maybe eating some of the organics like molasses that are in there?

Id say this narrows it down to your rez(is it clean/releasing some foreign substance into your nute solution?), or your nutes & additives(have they expired?)

"I've put the ph down to 5.5, and will let it drift up throughout the day. You think with it increasing as it is that if I let it drift from 5.5 to 6.5 and then put it back down once, maybe twice a day, I will be good?"

unacceptable, your ph should be stable enough where the largest fluctuation is a point or two, something is definately interfering with your ph

Whats the highest temp your nutes get as high temp nutes i have seen can contribute to this same problem.

[rapt44]

I use ice to keep my res temp from 70-75 degrees. My nutes are in the same room, so could they have gone bad? Where do you keep yours?

UPDATE:I recently flushed (for an hour with the hydroton) and changed out the water to straight up micro grow and bloom with calmag. Only had it on for 20 min before nighttime but THE PH SEEMED TO STABILIZE. It was no longer a steady stream of .1 over out of the drainage.

What could I have been adding that caused it to do that? The hygrozyme? That or maybe the cultures.

I tested the hygrozyme in conjunction with my floralicious and compost tea alone. It did seem to raise their ph a little after first dropping it. Not like what I was seeing though.

Also, my roots are like black, not brown(only a little of that, not like when I once had full on root rot). This dark color is normal right? Result of the floralicous which turned my res water dark?I recently flushed (for an hour with the hydroton) and changed out the water to straight up micro grow and bloom with calmag. Only had it on for 20 min before nighttime but THE PH SEEMED TO STABILIZE. It was no longer a steady stream of .1 over out of the drainage.

What could I have been adding that caused it to do that? The hygrozyme? That or maybe the cultures.

I tested the hygrozyme in conjunction with my floralicious and compost tea alone. It did seem to raise their ph a little after first dropping it. Not like what I was seeing though.

Also, my roots are like black, not brown(only a little of that, not like when I once had full on root rot). This dark color is normal right? Result of the floralicous which turned my res water dark?

I'll let you know tomorrow if it stays stable then I'll add products back in one at a time starting with the Hygrozyme, then Fulvic acid, then supervit, then silica, then my sweet stuff (mollasses and sulfur), then floralicious, then tea compost. One of them should be messing it up - I expect one of the silica on.

[rapt44]

Well it seems to have stablilized! I changed the water and just used micro, grow, bloom, calmag, superthrive that good acid to help it digest, wet betty, and . . . hygrozyme (the last of which should clear up any dead material on the roots, like peroxide, but will allow the bacteria and fungi to stay alive).

What I have not added: floralicious, tea compost, supervit, nectarsweet (basically my organics), and dm ZONE - potassium silicate.

HOWEVER, I did tests in kitchen glasses with all the not added ones on the bottom (except zone) mixed with the hygrozyme then later cultures of bacteria and fungi. The ph first dropped, then climed about half a point. It was NOT as vigorous a ph change as what I saw in my rezzy.

SO WHAT IS HAVING THE INTERACTION? The hygrozyme and silica? The only two I haven't tested? This is weird!!!!

[haggis123]

You are probably overfeeding, your plants are taking the water but not your nutes and hence the PH is rising as a result...also I beleive that silica raises the PH.

[IMgreen]

just used micro, grow, bloom, calmag, superthrive that good acid to help it digest, wet betty, and . . . hygrozyme

wow

that's a long list of stuff to be a "just"

[suspect]

Originally Posted by haggis123

You are probably overfeeding, your plants are taking the water but not your nutes and hence the PH is rising as a result...also I beleive that silica raises the PH.

silica does NOT raise the ph, if anything it does the opposite.

[up4anything]

Real cold water can affect your pH readings if you don't have a pH meter with decent temperature compensation. But... I think you need to flush, bro.

I would change to plain water and run that through for a little while and then empty everything out and do it again.

After the second (or third) emptying, mix up a fresh batch of nutrients and additives and check the pH and EC/ppm and make sure it is correct and stabilized. Then run things as usual and take some temp and pH readings throughout the day. Write down the temp as it corresponds to the pH and see if you notice some trends.

My guess is that you have so much biological activity going on in there, that you're just making it worse by throwing so much more into the mix.

Give that all a go and see how you do.

[up4anything]

BTW - by "a little while" I mean enough time to flush roots, purge delivery lines, wash out the pump, etc. Just run a few cycles of fresh, clean, non-additive water through the system to clean it all out.

It sucks because you'll be removing a lot of good (and expensive) stuff, but at least you'll be working from a baseline.

[suspect]

Originally Posted by up4anything

BTW - by "a little while" I mean enough time to flush roots, purge delivery lines, wash out the pump, etc. Just run a few cycles of fresh, clean, non-additive water through the system to clean it all out.

It sucks because you'll be removing a lot of good (and expensive) stuff, but at least you'll be working from a baseline.

true dat, nuff said!!!