LED = 400 Watts? Can't Be.

[RedSorcerer]

Since GC doesn't specialize in grow equipment, I assume it's ok to post a link to HTGSupply.
I saw this LED bulb on HTG and loved it. After reading through the lengthy, praising description, I came upon this clause.

LEDs are nearly 100% efficient at plant growth! This is 10 times the efficiency of a Sodium or Halide light, so therefore this converts to the same output as a 400 watt Sodium fixture!

Here's the light.
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct...roductID=52258

It's 13 watts and plugs into a 110 volt.
Nowhere on the page does it give us a lumen value.


Is it actually possible for this light to have the same output as a 400 Watt HPS??
I'm planning on ordering a 400 or 600 watt HPS/MH for this season, but I'd much rather get a couple of these bulbs for half the price if they'll grow the plants that fast.

[thebeatles069]

i highly doubt it. im assuming its like how a cfl gives so much wattage of normal light but you are only supposed to go by how many watts it uses. id just be some good cfls over that but i have never used leds

gl

[hexter19]

Very interesting I wonder if its true.

[RedSorcerer]

Let's get some of the LED gurus up in here.
LEDScientist?

[mcx151]

Lamp Type	Watts	Lumens/bulb	Total efficiency
Fluorescent Bulb	40	3000	30k lumens
Mercury Vapor	175	8000	20k lumens
Metal Halide	400	36000	36k lumens
High P. Sodium	400	45000	45k lumens

I'd love to believe that 13W LED could replace a 400W HPS but really it's all on the lumens, the more lumens you provide the faster and thicker your plants will grow...

Notice the Mercury Vapor lamps are less efficient than the fluorescent (FL), and can not be positioned as close to the plants, so the plants will not be able to use as much of the MV light. The light distribution is not as good either. MV lamps simply are not suitable for indoor gardening.
Use fluorescent, MH, or HPS lamps only. Halogen arc lamps generate too much heat and not very much light for the wattage they use, and are also not recommenced, even though the light spectrum is suitable for decent growth. There is a new type of HPS lamp called Son Agro, and it is available in a 250, 1000, and 400 watt range. The 400 is actually 430 watts; they have added 30 watts of blue to this bulb. It is a very bright lamp (53k lumens) and is made for greenhouse use. These bulbs can be purchased to replace normal HPS bulbs, so they are an option if you already own a HPS lamp. The beauty of this bulb is that you do not give up most of the advantages of MH lamps, such as minimal internode spacing and early maturation, like most HPS users do, and you have all advantages of a HPS lamp.One bulb does it all.
Internodal length of plants grown with the Son Agro are the shortest ever seen with any type of lamp. Plants grown under this lamp are incredibly bushy, compact and grow very fast. Son Agro bulbs however, do not last as long as normal HPS bulbs. There is something like a 25% difference in bulb life. Metal Halide (MH) is another option, and is available in both a 36k and 40k lumen bulbs for the 400 watt size. The Super Bulb (40k) is about $10-15 more, and provides an extra 4000 lumens. I think the Super Bulb may last longer; if so, that makes it the way to go. Halide light is more blue and better than straight HPS for vegetative growth, but is much less efficient than HPS.
It is possible to purchase conversion bulbs for a MH lamp that convert it to HPS, but the cost of the conversion bulb is more expensive than the color corrected Son Agro bulb, so I would recommend just buying the Son Agro HPS. Even though it costs more initially, you get more for your energy dollar later, and it's much easier to hang than 10 fluorescent tubes. If you have a MH 36k lumen lamp burning at 400 watts and a 53k lumen HPS burning at 430 watts, which is better efficiency wise? Which will provide a better yield? Obviously, the Son Agro HPS, but of course, the initial cost is higher. Actually, the ballast will add about 10% to these wattage numbers. The Son Agro bulb will prove much better than the MH for any purpose.
The MH bulb does not last as long, but is cheaper. Compare $36 for a 400 watt MH bulb vs. $40 for the HPS bulb. Add $15 for the Son Agro HPS. The HPS bulb life is twice as long. 10k hours vs. 21k hours. The Son Agro is 16k hours or so. Still, longer bulb life and more light add up to more for your energy dollar long term. Horizontal mounting of any HID is a good idea, as this will boost by 30% the amount of light that actually reaches the plants. Most HID's sold for indoor garden use these days are of this horizontal mounting arrangement.
HPS is much less expensive to operate than any other type of lamp, but comes in the 70 watt size at the home improvement stores. This size is not very efficient, but blows away FL in efficiency, so they might be an alternative to FL for very small operations, like 9 sq. feet or less. Over 9 sqr. feet, you need more light than one of these lamps can provide, but you could use two of them. 70 watt HPS lamps cost about $40 each, complete. Two lamps would be 140 watts putting out about 12k lumens, so it's better than FL, but a 150 watt HPS puts out about 18k lumens, the bulb life is longer, bulbs are cheaper and the lamp more efficient to operate.
The biggest problem is that the mid size lamps like the 150 and 250 watt HPS are almost as expensive to buy as the larger 400's. For this reason, if you have room for the larger lamp, buy the 400. If your going pro, a 1080 watt model is available too, but you might find there is better light distribution from two 400's rather than one large lamp. Of course, the two smaller lamps are more expensive to purchase than one large lamp, so most people choose the larger lamp for bigger operations. Heat buildup in the room is a factor with HID lamps, and just how much light the plants can use is determined by temperature, CO2 levels, nutrient availability, PH, and other factors. Too big of a lamp for a space will make constant venting necessary, and then there is no way to enrich CO2, since it's getting blown out of the room right away.


Obviously the best bang would be 2 400Watt One for growing room stage, and another room the flowering room with a 400W Son Agro bulb @ 53K Lumens...



This would suck up about 650 or so watts every hour... Kinda like running a small utility heater on low all day 24X7...



These setups will run you around 400 bucks a fixture. Where as comparable 100Watt LED system will run you about 500-650 bucks a fixture. Tho, here is one review of a lamp that if I were gonna go LED these are the ones I would use. One for Grow and one for Flower.... Two stage is the only way to go if you got the room!

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...-grow-log.html

This guy is using 3 100 watt leds @ 600 a pop! 1800 dollars in lights. Claims, more THC, Les Bugs and Mold and less water due to less heat...

http://www.greenpinelane.com/HGL_PROCYON_TEST.aspx

Another review...

http://homegrownlights.com/100W.html

Good Luck!

[RedSorcerer]

HTGSupply could be sued for false advertising?
Not that I'm by any means suggesting it.

But I still don't get how they can compare a 13 Watt LED to a 400 watt HPS.

[mcx151]

Originally Posted by RedSorcerer

HTGSupply could be sued for false advertising?
Not that I'm by any means suggesting it.

But I still don't get how they can compare a 13 Watt LED to a 400 watt HPS.

Well, it's a sticky issue... Since LEDS are in away are more efficient as in they claim they use all of the 13 watts full spectrum red and blue wave lengths.

That being said.......................... There is no way in hell, a 400Watt HPS lamp is only producing 13 watts of the useful plant spectrum.

So, anyway you slice it ... they are stretching. Most likely to get you to buy the product.


Bottom line in my opinion if you have a lot of cash, you want to save the environment a smaller carbon footprint, you want to experiment, you have a really tight grow space, you want less heat and less wattage use as to not be detected .... Then leds might be for you.

On the other hand if you want the biggest crop and fastest grow nothing (YET) comes close to the tried and true MH or HPS setups. Soon tho, maybe in the next 3-5 years they will have perfected the LED to grow perfect plants ... Cheap and Fast just as any HPS bulb... Time will tell... LED's have come a long way ... Soon they will be able to make a dual High Intensity 3-6Watt Led that will change color from blue or red kinda like an RGB led, That way you can just use the Blue spectrum for growing the flip a switch and use the Red for flowering ....

Wait two year and everyone will be using LED's ... HPS and MH Bulbs will be a thing of the past then you can tell your grand kids the good ol days of using them.

[strictly]

Hmm; i missed the Jan. & Feb. High Times articles on LEDs which was supposed to be favorable.
Did anyone else read those?
I assume HTGS was refering to use with African Violets rather than larger plants.
Although i have seen some LEDs that were so bright i couldn't open my eyes they were not HTGS and were much more expensive.