Building grow box, a few questions.

[VolcanoToke]

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======EDIT======== plan has changed see post #9
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I'm planning on constructing a small grow box/cabinet for my bedroom to grow about 4 plants at once, I was thinking something like 3'x3'x5' WxDxH with mylar lined walls and a 150-200w CFL for the main light source.

For ventalation I plan to use a duct style fan with a small carbon filter for exhaust and temp controll near the top with filtered vent holes (mold/pollen etc) at the bottom for intake and a couple 120v computer style fans to blow on the plants.

I'm planning to grow potted plants in regular soil and add nutrients by additives to the water.

The room in question is air conditioned to about 18c from about 4:30pm-6:30am during this time humidity ranges from roughly 30-55% and when the A/C is off (when i'm at work) temp is usually around 21-24c with humidity getting as high as 70%.

questions are:

1. What is the min/max (grow light off/on) temps I can have the plants in without ill effect, and will my main light source be hot enough to keep the temp of a cabinet that size high enough?

2. For the flowering period what is the min/max humidity I should try to maintain, and if there is any cheap ways to maintain it in such a small space? (humidifier/dehumidifer not really an option cost/power wise)

3. For general growing is it nessisary to use ph/tds meters or can you get by just folowing soil/nutrient guidelines and visually monitoring the plants health?

4. What kind of CFM should I be shooting for with the exhaust and should I set it up to activate to lower the temp or just have it on 24/7?

5. Are there any strains that are realativley cheap and forgiving to noobs that I should try to buy? (i'm hoping to not spend over $100 on seeds but it's not that big of a deal to go over, once I get experience ill just get clones of a good strain off someone)

Lastly i've heard that if you want to work on the plants during the night cycle you can just use a green light for illumination, I saw some cfl's at walmart that were green (party lights or something) would such a thing work or is a specific wavelength of green required? or would a blacklight work?

I'm in the vancouver area if anyone knows of good places to buy the gear/seeds.

Thanks in advance for any help provided.

[VolcanoToke]

no one?

[nueb]

http://forum.grasscity.com/grow-room...grow-room.html go check that out, basically same dimesions

[toastybiz]

First off, a 150-200w CFL is not going to be enough light for 4 plants in a 9 sq ft box. You should get at least a 250w HPS with MH conversion bulb, 400w would be better.

To your questions:

1. Try to keep the temps between 70-80F (21-27C) and definitely under 85F/29C. Above that temp and the plants have difficulty uptaking CO2. Measure temp directly under the light at plant-top height (a digital thermometer with a remote sensor works well). Only experimenting with your setup will tell you the temp effect of your lighting.

2. Keep humidity as low as possible during flowering, certainly under 20% if possible. It can be hard to control if you have good ventilation. You can get something called Damp Rid at a home store or hardware store for a few bucks, it sucks moisture out of the air.

3. If you are lucky enough to grow with pH falling into range naturally then you don't need a meter. But you don't konw that, so yes you should have a pH meter. If pH is out of whack then the plant cannot uptake certain nutrients. Each nutrient has its own pH range where it can be taken up by the MJ plant, and the range of 6.4-6.8 is the perfect overlap (in a soil grow) for all the key nutrients -- they can all be absorbed by the plant in this range.\

4. Ventilation is very tricky to advise because it depends on so many things. CFM is only one way to look at the "power" of a fan. Always better to get the stronger fan and run it on a lower speed than to get a smaller fan and revv it in the red zone.

5. My standard recco for a strain for newbies is Northern Lights -- pretty hardy and forgiving, quite potent, good yield, stays relatively low, and sometimes can grow with low odor. Better yet, for a first grow use bagseed from something that you liked the smoke.

I don't like the idea of using green light to mess with plants during the dark cycle. FOr the reasons you stated, just what kind of "green" light is OK and what isn't? Better to run the light/dark cycle in such a way that it is convenient for you to tend the plands during the light period. Definitely do not try to use a blacklight during "dark."

No refs for Vancouver area, though I can say I was just there last week for my first time and it is a city that lives up to its fine reputation.

[GrowMaster83]

4 plants only.. You should flower atleast 9 plants under one 400 to 1000 watt light bulb. its not worth growing that little anyways.

[VolcanoToke]

thanks for the advice, I think im gonna look into a 400w HID, maybe some extra CFL's on the sides might grow em a little wider, also prob' gonna get the meters required at least ph (do they ware out over time? whatever detects gets glogged or something?) also a good strain reccomendation that im gonna try.

only thing im worried about is the 20% or lower RH, that seems crazy low. is that just ideal or the max you can have without bud rot?

and just for the ease of asking here does anyone know if HID ballasts surge when they start up, like the compressor for an a/c machine or say a vacuum cleaner, id immagine any power spike wouldn't be from the electronics but rather just the higher voltage? required for starting the arc.

[toastybiz]

Originally Posted by GrowMaster83

4 plants only.. You should flower atleast 9 plants under one 400 to 1000 watt light bulb. its not worth growing that little anyways.

Are you saying it's not worth growing 4 plants? That's news to me.

Volcano, under 20% is ideal not the threshold for bud rot. That threshold is much higher, just keep in mind that the plant will try to cover itself in sticky resins if in an arid climate in an attempt to protect itself from drying out, and more resin = more to smoke.

[thgreenfuture]

you can let it get up to 90 F and its not bad for once in a while to let it get up to 100 F but only for about thirty minutes.

also worry about insulation on wires, dont let that get too hot, because if it gets hot enough, it can dry up and when temp. drops, it can crack and the wire can cross, and you can possible lose all of your electric equip.


are you planning on making a high quality grow, or just grow it to get it over with and kick back and smoke?

[VolcanoToke]

NEW PLAN (ready to start buying):



BOX:

4'x4'x6' Dimensions
lined with 2mil mylar

build with 4x (2"x4"x10") lumber
(keep in mind real dimension is 1½"x3½")

the 4x 1½"x3½" left over pieces will be used to brace the
4 stud pieces together for strength at the bottom
(i'll have to by an additional 2"x4"x4' for the top brace)

and using 4x (4'x8'x¾") boards for walls, floor and celing

using the boards to make 4x (4'x4'x6') walls will leave 4x (2'x4') pieces left over
which joining 2 of them together and cutting notches for the studs will make the floor
and once again with the other 2 pieces for the top.

I may just buy an extra 2"x4"x10' (vs a 4' as mentioned above) and use the extra
6' to make an additional brace on the bottom, since it will carry the weight.
and use the remaining 2' to form a latch for the door.

the door just being the wall panel cut down the middle and 4 gate hinges later (maybe 6 depending on weight of the panel) will make the door im not sure what you call it but i plan to make the closing mechanism just a bar across to pockets (1 on each side) like a castle door, this seems like the most logical way to keep the door completly closed tight without spring loading them (and if that doesnt work the same as the above except with the pockets comming off of the side walls which will require more wood but will keep the door better closed if required.

to keep the light inside I was thinking of putting some kind of weather stripping along the door joints, any reccomendations welcome.



LIGHT:


600w HPS (with MH conversion bulb for vegging) digital ballast and a plain reflector that is just mounted over the bulb and socket, no kind of box or anything ballast is remote from the light and socket assembly, planning to have it sitting on the roof of the box and having the plug run down to a timer switch on the side.

the light, hanging from 2" chains will hang 10" down from the celing
im not sure but I think the min distance to keep between lamp and plants with this wattage is ~20"?



AIR:

inside the box will be a temp/RH controll switch for the fan (~330cfm 6" vortex fan) which will be attached on the side of the box near the top and a short right angle of duct hose connecting it to the box at the top, from the output of the fan is the 6"x10" Carbon filter which has a lower cfm rating than the fan (about 250cfm) but I plan to use a fan speed controller to slow the fan down a bit, for the cfm difference but also just to cut down the noise a bit, dimmer will be mounted beside the temp switch. will just use an HVAC mold/pollen etc... filter over an intake hole near the bottom.



Plants:

will plan to use 16x (10"x10"x10.5") (in 4x4 grid, obviously) pots leaving about an inch between each pot and to the walls so as to be able to pick them out with ease, if you think that is too many plants for the space or light i'll prob just do 3x3 pots unless that would still be too many.

because of the 10" of the hanging light and what I believe is a min 20" safe distance between the tops and the light and the 10.5" of the pots and soil (total 40.5" or just under 3½') this leaves [no pun intended] 2½ feet for the plants to grow this seems a little short maybe I can use smaller plants for each pot, let the plants get closer to the light, or just prune the top brances to keep within the correct space from the light (not sure if this would kill the plant or affect the other parts of it) and if nessisary can just build the thing taller but max height is basically 7½' only giving my an extra 1½' for a total of 4' grow height (even more depending on light distance) which seems adequate but would have to mount the ballast on the side and attach the roof from the inside requiring the purchase or some angle shelf bracket things as well as say 2 more boards to make the braces since there wouldnt be any extra pieces in that case.

not sure what kind of soil to use yet, the only thing i haven't checked out yet (as well as a seed shop, but thats obviously the last step) and also if I should by extra perlite (even for a soil that has some?)

for nutriends i'm also not sure, haven't looked into it.

also planning to get a ph/tds meter that will have probes that go into a water barrel for feeding water with the nutrients and a circulation pump to keep it mixed, and possibly some kind of small fishtank like air pump to airate the water (if that is worth doing or even makes sense?)

i'm planning for conditions as such:
19-20c lights off temp
25-28c lights on temp
60-70% clone/veg humidity
40-50% flowering humidity (think I can keep it below 50 without any special stuff)
200ml water per plant w/ nutes per day for the veg and same every second day for first 2 weeks flowering
300ml water per plant w/ nutes every other day for weeks 3-4
400ml water per plant w/ nutes every other day for weeks 4-8
and nothing for 2-3 days after that.

hopefully thats not too f*cked up but your help is appreciated if it is.


MISC

I'll also need all the little things:

-foil tape (to attach mylar, or cover up the cardboard/staples that i might use)
-cloning gel
-tarp (for making a catch basin for water that might go through pot drain holes)
-watering jug or water hose / pump with spray garden nozzle thing
-water spray bottle (to mist water onto plants, to raise humidity if required to for just a little extra shot of water to the plants, if thats a good idea?)
-duct tape or clamps
-misc hooks (mount light)
-misc screws (mount timers, fan, ballast etc...)
- Junction box (might use instead of running cord from temp switch to fan through a hole, and for a small fan on the inside for air movment)
e.g. will use say a 4 plug junction box and use 1 wire comming in as AC to 2 outlets on the inside for supplying the fan controller and inside fan and using the 3rd outlet to run power outside to the exhaust fan and have a 4th one for possibly a future CO2 system
-staple gun
-drill
-circular saw
-jig saw
-sillocone
-wood glue
-paint (might paint it the same color as the walls to not make it look so out of place, or use some wood vineers and stuff to make it look like a big dresser or something)



I've priced most of it out and so far it's looking like it will run about: $1800 (with $100 seed budget and assuming I cant get a csaw,jsaw,drill,staple gun,calking gun, screws, hooks, water jug and sprayer etc... from someone to borrow/use)

I plan to do the first run from seeds and than as they are growing build a small veg box to hold 16 clones (or 9 depending on grow configuration) and maybe 3 mothers (3 different strains or if you can't clone a plant in the final stages) which would run on just a few cfl's or something this box is a new project like my first set of questions for the big one so any advice on this is appreciated, I was wondering if you can clone a plant at the end stages of flowering (most of the time seems ppl do it within 3-4weeks of flower after sex is determined) this way I would not need to keep mother plants and not need to run that box 18/6 or 24/0 for most of the time and only do it for say 4 weeks (whatever a good root growth / vegging time is) before the harvest of the flowering plants that way I can start a new grow or out of the 16 use this method and have it split up into 4 groups of 4 for a harvest of 4 plants every 2 weeks which would be every payday and after selling to friends/family/co-workers have enough left for myself all the time, as well as having a couple extra buck from the sales to cover the cost of electricity/consumables as well as the original construction cost over time... once I get my money back white widow for $100 an oz for all my buds (pun intended)


...sweet

[VolcanoToke]

edited the above post to be completly different.

[VolcanoToke]

Strains i'm thinking of getting:
(for each cluster of 4 per week I plan to have 2 white widow 1 indica 1 sativa, hoping to get about a pound every 2 weeks from 4 plants)
-Dutch Passion White Widow just for the buzz about it once im ready
-Northern Lights as my starting plant and my indica
-Mystiva as sativa
also thinking of Durban Poison sativa but the pic on the site makes it look pretty tall (as im aware or wrongly informed sativa's are the normally outdoor suited plants that can grow up to like 10+ feet? and indicas are short and bushy?)
any reccomendations welcome as i've never really known what ive been smoking except that almost everything i've gotten so far has been called kush no matter what it looked or smelled like, think people just say that to justify charging $30+ an 1/8th
I think it is going to be really nice and increase the experience smoking something that i've put my own work into growing and seen through from seed to finish.
asuming no one has and new advice on anything I should change or do differently i'm probbably gonna start gathering the parts throughout november and begin construction / growing in late dec (after all the x-mas madness is over) or ill just get to excited and start anyways
i'll start a new thread that will chronicle the build and growth of the plants w/ pics I have a decent digicam right now but might buy a SLR with some macro lenses cause I know how everyone likes those sexy super high res bud pics.

[llama]

Sounds good dude, ive spent a total of about 35$ and used bagseed in my grow, so im sure with that kind of investment and some good seeds you'll have some nice results

[llama]

Just occured to my that for that kind of coin (1800$) you may want to look into hydro.

As a matter of fact... what on earth is that 1800& going towards?

100$ max for box build
~200$ for light?
100$ for fans and sensors?
and 100 more for misc and other stuff?

thats 500 bucks-ish?

[jzchillin]

i was reading through your list-o-stuff. i think your light is most definitely under powered. the rule of thumb is: for every plant 100w. you have 600w that equals 6 plants. and if you plan on growing white widow... that stuff turns into a bush you might get away with 3 maybe 4 in that space alone. that is one of the best strains to start out with. you should check out arjans seeds though he is the OG of white widow and his white rhino puts out more and doesn't bush out as much. your cooling and venting are right on, you have done some homework. just don't get your hopes up to quick. the first couple of crops we did didn't work out as well as we had hoped but it was a learning experience.
make a aeroponics cloner. don't use the gel. i have 100% success rate using liquid karma,cal-mag and hydroguard in the cloner. i haven't lost a single clone yet. right before i transplant them i give them a little shot of pro grow to give them a little stretch, ph5.5 ec1.6.
one more thing. were you going to use the silicone for filling cracks? if so i found "great stuff" to be the best, why you ask. because it expands and fills the cracks and light doesn't get through.

oh and if you are spending all that money on tools and supplies, why not get a hydro hut. those things are badaxx.just thought i would throw that out there.

son

[VolcanoToke]

im starting to think 9 plants and use the little bit of extra space to add some auxillary cfl bars on all sides.

as for the price it comes from a list that I priced out which has about 30+ items and all the little things e.g. screws/glue were normally doubled and rounded up id rather plan for it to be way more expensive than it will be than to run out of money half way and not be able to accomplish anything.

I saw a video where 27 plants were grown under 3 600w (9 under one)

but I ifgured since I plan to have the area so small and the close walls covered with mylar as well as by removing the lower branches of the plants(which would not get enough light anyways) that I might be able to get away with 4x4 vs 3x3.

most people have scared me off hydro saying how if one thing goes wrong everything can die within hours and that soil is a good buffer which gives time to troubleshoot technical and nutritional problems

i've also never heard anything good about those pre-fab all in one grow boxes, one I looked at was BC Northern Lights Bloom Box, which is a company located within driving distance but none of the reviews I read were favorable and the product can leak, and or fail.

I was thinking about one of those grow tents (for the sake of mobility) but how would you mount stuff like fans and such...

a 1000w light is the only light i can get for free from someone but didn't think I would need that much or even have enough electricity on the circuit it need.

i think digital ballasts are say 95% efficient? making a 1000w lamp use 9.1a only leaving ~6 amps for everything else, which is possible but would be really close.