[Grim Bongmaster]

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Yeah, but from the second the chick is born, or the seed sprouts, it's dying (ie, the law of thermodynamics is taking place).

That's total bullshit! For the first 6 to 8 months a human child is still gaining neurons! By your definition we would all be dieing from the moment of conception! I will agree that we are getting closer to our final day every single day from conception, but there are no physical signs of death while we are still children.

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Whenever something is formed, from that second on it is breaking down, and entropy is building.

the mathematical laws of thermodynamics state very clearly that entropy can spontaneously decrease!

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

and how does salt forming go against thermodynamics? Salt is a crystle, like many other substances... It's chemicle makeup determines it's "precise planes of crystalline symmetry"... how does that, in the least bit, show something going against the second law of thermodynamics? And snowflakes aren't order... it's not forward progression. It's what happens when you freeze water vapor... again, how does this go against the second law of thermodynamics...

"Table salt is made up of sodium and chlorine atoms, so let's start with a very small quantity (around 50 milligrams) of sodium and chlorine - around 10^20 atoms of each.

Let's place these elements in a small container and mix it up.

What is the probability of a sodium atom meeting a chlorine atom in this container?

Answer: Virtually Unity.

What is the probability of a *SPECIFIC* sodium atom meeting a *SPECIFIC* chlorine atom in this container?

Answer: Once the sodium atom meets any OTHER chlorine atom, it is out of the picture. Similarly, once the chlorine atom meets any OTHER sodium atom, then IT is out of the picture.

The probability of the specific atoms meeting each other?


1 in 10^40.
The probability of every single specific sodium atom meeting a specific chlorine atom?


1 in 10^80. 1 with 80 zeroes after it.
Once we have 10^20 salt molecules, what is the probability of any salt molecule linking to any other until we have a salt crystal?

Answer: Unity.

What are the chances of a SPECIFIC salt molecule meeting another SPECIFIC salt molecule? 1 in 10^20.

Of all of them meeting like this? 1 in 10^40?

Of that batch of Sodium and Chlorine making that crystal?


1 in 10^120
This is how Hoyle and Wickramasinghe and Behe established their probabilities - by using permutations and treating each component of the cell as a totally unique entity with no other properties prior to final assembly than staying where placed.

Yet a pyridine molecule(for example) is the same wherever it is! Plus the properties of the variuos components REQUIRED that they have a constrained number of possible combinations.

Further, all that we need is some form of self-replication molecule that can absorb other molecules in order to replicate and mutate - already verified to be able to form naturally (although many Creationists will quote 40-year-old editorial opinions as "proof" that it can't happen), plus the verified Dawkins effect to bring on evolution of the final form of that cell. "

[quote=IGotTheCottons]

Originally Posted by Grim Bongmaster

-No-one can possibly know how or why our universe works, where it came from or how life got here. Just because you have a fucking book that says some omnipotent being made us, doesn't make it so. I can write a book that says we evolved from dust mites and after 2000 years, no matter how many people follow my new doctrine it makes it no more right than when it was written."

And just because you read some "science" book which teaches evolution (not really a science, but rather it's own religion), and you believe in something that has no solid scientific evidence, doesn't mean you have to be a prick to those of us who believe in something else.

I don't hate christians because of what they believe, I hate christians because they try to force their beliefs on others. All throught the history of the U.S. you people have fucked with our country, to force your beliefs on everyone else, and I fucking hate all of you! Your entire religion! Not because of what you believe though, I don't necessarily believe the evolutionists either, but at least they don't want to control my life! Gay mariage can't take place because of your "culture", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I can't buy and smoke weed because of your culture, what else have you guys outlawed...oh..right dancing!?!? Alcohol....You burned witches...because remember, the bible says they exist!! That is why I come off as a prick, not because I hate your beliefs, you can believe whatever the hell you want, but because you people have steadily throught history tried to force your beliefs on others.

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Give me an example of energy not progressing into entropy? The energy is always there, but it becomes useless over time. If you think you can prove otherwise, please, do so. And make sure you actually back it up... don't just quote something, and not put the source or anything, like you've so conviently done in this post.

the mathematical laws of thermodynamics state very clearly that entropy can spontaneously decrease!

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Honestly, I don't appreciate your disrespect. If you don't want to read my threads, then don't. No one forces you to be here. If you don't like what I have to say, DON'T READ IT. I'm not here trying to force my beliefs on anyone. This is the Spirituality and Philosophy section of the forum... what kind of threads do you expect to find here? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't give you the right to come in here and accuse me of forcing my beliefs on everyone.

All your culture has done throught history is force your beliefs on people. Here's a good one for you, that my dad once told me. If god can flick a grain of sand into the universe could he tell you where it was in a billion years. Your answer would obviously be yes, because he is omnipotent and omnipresent, then why can't he use evolution as his tool?

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

And just fyi, I don't think I'm better than anyone. The main purpose of this thread was to debate evolution. The evolutionists have their thread "Why the Bible is Wrong" so to be a bit ironic, I started a Why Evolution is Wrong thread. I bet you were all go-ho for the Why the Bible is Wrong thread, and you really couldn't care less about what they said in there... but as soon as I say something that challanges what you believe, you get all defensive, and insulting.

I posted a few times in why the bible is wrong thread, I don't believe the bible to be correct. That doesn't mean I don't believe there is a god, because I can't prove that. It simply means that if there is a god, he's not the one defined in the bible.

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Hmm... sounds a little hypocritical to me .

Your culture is the definition of hypocritical..

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Evolution goes against the second LAW of thermodynamics. Evolution also goes against the second LAW of thermodynamics by saying the universe is moving towards a more complex state. How can this be when everything that's left to itself in a closed system (which, by definition, the universe is) moves towards higher degrees of entropy and disorder?

I just thought I would mention that this is more of a bastardization of the THIRD law of thermodynamics.