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Originally Posted by Kid A masses of people thinking outisde of the box isnt exactly the best for "society" it may be the best for mankind but not society. if we dont have masses of conformists down with 9-5 jobs 2.43 kids and re-painting their white picket fence monthly...whos gonna put solitare on my ipod? whos gonna buy the new audis? whos gonna vote bush? not that im saying all conservatives are stupid ..but they are generally stupid people
ever think of some/most great ideas/art/discoveries as genius thoughts or just VERY random thoughts. everyone born with the same mind just those who get more random become smarter, knowing more, discovering more? it all lies in the imagination. |
true ideological "conservatives" (ie, right wingers) are not stupid from my experience, just a little brash and greedy. not really your "big picture" thinking types generally speaking. however it would seem from my experiences, that the majority of those who vote right wing, or align themselves with the status quo, arent actually right wing in their mindsets at all... they've just been duped by the slick multi million dollar advertising campagins, not to mention the constant conditioning and preaching of the capitalist religion through marketting and adertising.... we're born to it.
the word conservative is a bit of a joke really.
we're born into this society, never has it been some egalitarian paradise for anyone i know. some fear change because experiences of change somewhere in their lives yeilded negative results for them, and so they cling to the status quo, fearing change.
and as ever.... its our old buddy "fear" that has us by the balls. even that saying i just used there typifies how ingrained fear is to us, so much so, that we so often cannot even concieve of how it defines us, how much it defines us.
stupidity comes in all shapes and forms.
i'm stupid.
really stupid.
un-stupid enough to realise i'm stupid though.
others around me i reccognise as being even less stupid than i in relevant areas are caught in webs, thinking loops that can cause mental problems. where do these loops come from? anchors. there are points in our thoughts that are anchored. beliefs. craving for constance, holding onto the stable, fearing the uncertain.... beliefs seem so certain, and to use the modern equivalent.... the politician's use of the word "fact" is also such an anchor if someone were to really take it in and accept it without question. and many many people do. they don't have an always on firewall to question every input. it doesnt mean their stupid though, not accross the board anyways. what i'm talking about really is conclusions. but i'll stick with the word belief for now.
if you have a belief, and you are presented with something that contradicts that belief, depending on how ingraned you have let that belief become, you will have to use some method of thought to "troubleshoot" the contradiction. if the belief is quite "set in stone", you'll first make the assumption (and i like assumptions alot better than beliefs) that it is the new conflicting data that is in error. you may ignore it, dismissing it almost imediately, never to even consider, because it would require to challenge a belief. its fairly safe to ignore it, your beleifs are still intact, no harm done. but to not ignore it, with an ingraned belief, could cause problems... it will mean you will have to wrestle with a contradiction, and you're unlikely to want to even give challenging your beliefs a passing thought. accepting confusion is sometimes even too much for some people who "believe" they know everything. creating a mental construct around the problem is what usually happens i think. without complete ignorance, an ever growing patern of "working things out", bumping into more contradictions and creating more pathways around.... so that as the construct of thoughts grow, the route of the increasing problems in the increasingly messy though constructs is burried deaper and deaper unless deconstruction of your thoughts occurs. If you've created all your thoughts out of belief, then this is going to be a much greater problem than if you left everything a little more "loose". granted, with a mind full of "loose" thoughts, things might fall appart more readily.... but there we go, even through my walkthrough of this, i've presented another asumption... that we even need a construct of thoughts in our mind at all. why can't we just let it all float around like soup.
but then ... that really brings us to the argument of the moment. the real battle we are presented with. chaos vs order... and the balancing interplay between the two.
if we are to accept (assume is true) the saying that "order creates chaos and chaos creates order", someone who let the soup flow freely around their head would be contributing more to order than those of a ordered mind. or thats one way of interpreting it.
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Originally Posted by naturalmystic digit what you said about schools is true. they only teach us to find 1 answer.. thats if you study sciences and mathematics branches.
If you study english for example.. you write and use your brain to find ideas and you are forced to use your creativity. |
i get what yer getting at and agree, but the rule you cited doesnt fit in practice i've noticed.
English was (is) my
worst, and Chemistry was my best.
i rarely saw much encouragement or scope for use of creativity in school.... even in art.
real creativity, the stuff that needs imagination, gets supplimented by industriousness/productivity in very large parts throughout all education institutions i have had the fortune/misfortune of experiencing, same is true of other peoples experiences too it would seem. "practical necessity" thats why we're told. people need money, for that, people need to get jobs, people need to be "trained" (conditioned, manipulated) into being PRODUCTIVE workers, and so thats how our education systems are slanted. wow.... just how many cultural assumptions are in that last sentence!? so little of it gets challenged, because its held as belief. we must do this, we must do that... we must conform!
how long have we been pumping this out to our kids? conform! we don't have to charging off in the diametric opposite extreme, like "be as different to everyone else as possable". pushing anyone down any road isnt really a good idea. presenting as much info as possable is about as best as any of us can do without fucking shit up like its been fucked up before we got here.
i think it was some psychiatrist who came up with similar ideas about "must" mentality. it causes problems. we're not smart enough to be able to say what "must" be.
didn't anyone consider "what if we're wrong?"
of course they did.
we just get swept under the carpet.
god forbid if anyone were able to think for themselves and challenge
what is for
what could be.
it is the self protectionism, the survival instinct.... it exists in institutions just as much as in living beings.
it is almost as if the beliefs in our heads have their own survival instinct.
i have no beliefs.... i've tried this approach for years now. language has sometimes lead me down the path of saying "i believe that... yada yada..", and every time i do, i spend a long time dwelling on whether i really do have a belief. anytime i find one, i do my best to uproot it.
with beliefs, you cannot be open minded. you cannot be open to ALL possabilities, if you are anchored in your thoughts. that is not freedom. if you do not even have freedom in your own mind, what hope do you have to find freedom in the rest of your existance? haha, but be carefull with that. i've gone charging off at times in search of a more free, higher level of thinking, or of brain function that has lead me close to going over the edge. i've (like i'm sure most psychonauts) explored regions of thought known in the tabloid tongue as insanity.
i wanna say a couple words on the environment again after all that.
we get taught of our environment and its importance early in life, and yet, now that we've grown up a little more, what's the status quo that runs riiiight through even our own subcultures that i hear far too often?
"leave it to the next generation to fix"
"when our generation is in power we'll fix all the problems"
or worse...
"I didn't break it, it was this way when we found it"
ok, lets take them one at a time.
"leave it to the next generation to fix"
WE ARE THE NEXT GENERATION. the past generation passed the buck onto us... what are we gonna do? pass it on again!!!?!?!?!?!? now there's fucking insanity for you!
"when our generation is in power we'll fix all the problems"
i hear this deluded wishfull thinking all too often.
we do not live in a geritocracy (hierarchy based on age), despite the large number of geriatrics in our governments. power simply won't fall in our laps. the people who get into power are those who most want it, and those who inherit it. look around at the people our age... no not just your friends.... see... there are dickheads our age too! these are the guys who'll nab the power, and they are. looking around at the young faces you see at NewLabour or Conservative party conferences i fear for our future, i fear it will be much of the same. problem of course being that things are never the same and so to try to use the same old rule book is a very dangerous thing indeed. the stakes have grown far too high in the last century.
"I didn't break it, it was this way when we found it"
haha, ok i stole that directly from dennis leary, but it does parallel a comon apathetic mentaility. i neednt go further to 'splain the ignorance of this right?
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Originally Posted by naturalmystic In my case i used to be 'brainwahed' so to say. But even when things were set in stone for me.. it quicky fell apart and i started to see a whole new world.
I can't say i would go back to what i used to know, because now i've learned so much more. And i've also been able to experience life with all its ups and downs. I don't really remember what its like to be in that 'prison' without knowing i was in it.
but one thing i can say is that i can see true beauty in the world.. and even feel beauty although, i do see a lot of the corruption and negativety too |
:nod: dang right. i was there too.
*looks over how much i've writen*
jeez guys... please dont ever compliment me in asking for more again. see what happens! lol
"off on one" over.
