[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by teamochi

I would say just about every decision that HAS been made. The removal or Habeus Corpus (sp) the removal of our privacy, the terrorist list that most Americans are actually on, Illegal wars, a national ID card, the possible "unification" of north America... a war with Iran that NOONE is excited(in the literal sense, not the positive sense.) or upset about. All these things could have been vetoed or revisited, and yet he hasn't done any of it.

Now the "9/11 changed everything" bullshit aside, he should have read these things and actually wondered how this would affect the American people, and I must say I am disgusted that it was thought that we would gladly hand over out rights and privacy because of an attack we were warned about and didn't heed.

I can definitely agree with all of that. I agree that Bush should have read these things and actually wondered how they would affect the American people, but he didn't. Or maybe he did - but his bad judgment told him that he was doing the right thing. Either way, it is horribly offensive and disgusting what our president has done to us. He should have been impeached long ago.

This isn't him taking on a job he couldn't handle, this is him IGNORING plenty of warnings and then using (yes, using) the fear this created to make MORE bad decisions. He could have been going "oh shit what do I do now?" the whole time letting the 9/11 hype control his decision making, but then that doesn't help his case at all and actually makes it look worse.

I agree it makes him look worse, and that's my whole point. Trust me, I'm not trying to help Bush's case in any way. He doesn't fully understand what the hell he's doing. He sincerely believes that he's doing what's best for the country. Apparently that is hard to believe for some people though because now we have all these crazy conspiracy theories. People seem to think that Bush is too intelligent to make mistakes, and therefore they must be part of his secret plan to take over the world.

He could have turned this over to someone else if he felt it wasn't working out, that would have been honorable, but we've had to suffer 8 years of bullshit because the president thought that (what was it?) 13 countries were just playing a prank when they were telling us we'd be attacked... and I'm just saying that cause that was the event that catapulted us into the bullshit we're in.

Agreed.

Sorry, but I honestly don't see how this isn't defending him, but aside from that (which you're not even a good example cause I honestly feel like I don't know where you stand on anything besides obama lol), I've seen TONS of people defend him, have you missed all the Bush groupies who still worship him???

Yeah, maybe there are a few idiots left who still worship Bush, but about three quarters of the country disapproves of his presidency. My point was that no one in this thread has attempted to defend him. I'm not defending him at all.... what I'm defending is my own intelligence. I'm not naive enough to believe something just because someone made a video about it or wrote an article about it.

And I don't see how my saying he is just a bad president who has not thought one bit about the constitution OR the American people is defending him.

I don't think you're trying to defend him, I was just turning the argument back around on you. The difference here is that you believe he's malevolent, while I believe that he's simply incompetent. So if I'm defending his intentions, then you are defending his ability and intelligence.

If you look at all of the things that have happened throughout the years, all the people who have entered and left the offices and the things that happened, the things that were said and such, I think its naive to think that there wasn't something planned going on. I'm not saying "there were no planes!!11" and I'm not saying "Bush did it all!", but I am saying that "Bush needs to think about the American people for once" and "He knew about 9/11".

I believe that Bush had warnings which he ignored, but I don't believe that he intentionally let 9/11 happen. He didn't take the threats seriously, he overestimated America's security, and he realized his mistake soon afterward, but didn't want us to see it.